tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 26 14:23:53 1996
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Re: KLBC: sources
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: sources
- Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:23:17 -0400 ()
- Priority: NORMAL
On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 10:46:01 -0700 HoD trI'Qal
<[email protected]> wrote:
> At 04:14 PM 8/22/96 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >qaSDI' 96-08-22 01:37:04 EDT, jatlh trI'Qal:
> >
> >> Since "official sources"
> >> cannot speak, we want <bIH>.
> >
> >Oh, yeah? What about our official source for {'I'} and {nughI'}?!? {{:-D
> >
> >SuStel
> >Stardate 96644.4
>
> That's one source. This is sort of like the arguement about <qorDu'>
> ("family").
Not quite.
> Once, long ago, someone put a "able to speak" suffix on <qarDu'>, which was
> flagged as incorrect by the BG (it was so long ago, I don't even remember
> who posted, or who was BG at the time...
As I remember it, either Krankor spoke up or was cited on it.
> for all I know, it could have been
> *me*!). This brought forth a debate... because, although all the member of
> a family are capable of speech, a *family* is not, although we often (in
> english, at any rate) talk like the do. If I am not mis-using my terms,
> that is a form of personification.
No problem. But "family" is a group word and when you speak of a
family, you speak of a group. "Source"/{Hal} is not a group
word, any more than {nuv} is a group word. If sources refers to
people, then {Halpu'} is exactly as appropriate as {nuvpu'}. Are
you suggesting we should be using {nuvmey} because any time a
speaking entity is plural they become unable to speak?
So if you are referring to {Halpu'}, the proper pronoun is
{chaH}, not {bIH}, and if you are speaking of {qorDu'pu'}, the
pronoun is {bIH}, not {chaH}, but then, if you are speaking of
one {qorDu'}, the pronoun is {'oH}, not {bIH}, because even
though one {qorDu'} is a group of more than one person, it is
just one group.
> A "family" does not speak, although it's members do. Same thing for a
> "council". Same thing for "High Command". Same thing for "sources". {{:)
True, but these are all group names. The noun is singular and
treated grammatically as singular, grouping together speaking
entities. {Halpu'}, however is not a group name. It is a plural
form of a singular noun, which may be capable of speech or not,
depending on the specific case. In this case, the joke was that
a couple of our sources are people, like Krankor as the source
of {nughI'}, ~mark as the source of {'I'} and r'Hull as the
source of our new meaning for {ngev}.
> I can also present to you that many of our sources are not capable of
> speech, even though they all derive from that "one" source: TKD, TKW, CK,
> PK, etc.
Except for the three sources from qep'a', whose contributions
became canon when Okrand said so, with a wave of his magic wand.
>
> Therefore, using <bIH> instead of <chaH> is correct. :)
Not necessarily. Sorry if I seem to be picking on you. I really
don't mean to. I like you and stuff. It's just these sweeping
statements that bring on the cringe and the insatiable urge to
type a reply...
> Sorry to drill this into the ground, but I feel an obligation to make sure
> ANYTHING under the KLBC Header is fully and completely explained in detail.
> It's one of my "faults" that (I think) helps me be a better BG. {{:)
When you are right, it is a good trait. When most probably
mistaken, it adds fuel to the response.
> --tQ
>
>
> ---
> HoD trI'Qal, tlhIngan wo' Duj lIy So' ra'wI'
> Captain T'rkal, Commander IKV Hidden Comet
> Klingon speaker and net junkie!
> HaghtaHbogh tlhIngan yIvoqQo'! toH... qatlh HaghtaH Qanqor HoD???
> monlI'bogh tlhInganbe' yIvoqQo'! SoHvaD monlI' trI'Qal...
charghwI'