tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 03 19:58:58 1996
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worn out
This is getting to be like explaining a joke; it's not worth the effort.
>From"William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
Re: Re: KLBC "Don't let the bastards get you down"
>Sorry. That doesn't work. You then have two main verbs and no
>grammatical justification for their both existing in the same
>sentence. In Klingon, you never have two main verbs in a
>sentence without a special reason. The Sentence As Object
>construction is just such an exception, so the {'e'} is needed,
>unless the second verb is a verb of speaking or {neH}. You also
>might consider comparatives to be that sort of exception.
>Otherwise, one of the verbs needs to be dependent upon the
>other, as in with Type 9 verb suffixes or with {-taHvIS}.
>You were trying to use {taHqeqpu'} as both subject of "wear you
>down" and object of "Don't allow", all in one sentence with
>neither verb dependent upon the other. Most languages would not
>allow that and Klingon very much does not allow it.
>When you say, "Don't allow..." it is the ACTION that you are
>not allowing, not the individuals DOING the action. Just look
>at the pseudo sentence:
>taHqeqpu' tIchaw'Qo'.
>What is that supposed to mean? "Don't allow the taHqeqs". It
>doesn't make any sense.
>nIDoy'moH 'e' yIchaw'Qo'.
>"Don't let them make you tired."
>That makes sense.
>nIDoy'moH taHqeqpu' 'e' yIchaw'Qo'.
>"Don't let the taHqeqs make you tired."
>That makes sense. See?
It has been said that many single sentences in English need two (or more)
Klingon sentences to express them. My original intent was to to write two
Klingon sentences; the first meaning "The bastards are wearing you out.(or
tiring you, or saddening you)" <nIQopmoH taHqeqpu'(pagh nIDoy'moH pagh
nI'IQmoH)> The second sentence was to mean "Don't allow them!"
<taHqeqpu'>is not the subject of the second sentence it is the antecedent of
the pronoun, "them". So I was not guilty of making a two verb sentence,
though it may look that way.
Re: KLBC "Don't let the bastards get you down"
by "Mark E. Shoulson" <[email protected]>
>I agree that "Stop the bastards from abrading you," misses the
>point, but I don't think anyone was suggesting replacing
>{yIchaw'Qo'} with {yImev}. Your last suggestion, however, is
>total gibberish. The {-'egh} indicates that the subject is the
>object and Klingon grammar states that you place the
>subject/object in the subject position. It's like the
>difference between saying, "I wash myself" and saying, "I am
>washed by myself." The latter is not Klingon.
>So, your last suggestion does not make more sense of the
>action. It makes no sense AT ALL.
I went out on a limb on this one and it broke. Ouch! What I was trying to say
was, "Don't let yourself.", meaning don't allow yourself to be worn down,
much the way a therapist might say to a client, "Don't let yourself play
their games."
Finally Mark E. Shoulson tells me to use QopmoH. He is right.
In conclusion, I'm a little disappointed that this is not a question of
style. Most of the comments said that I had to be referring to the action
and not the taHqeqpu'. I still disagree with this . If my two sentences
were <nunIS taHqeqpu' yIchaw'Qo'>, I don't think there would be a problem.
Feeling the heat,but not leaving the kichen,
tIm