tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 08 21:23:06 1995
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Re: Re[4]: ranks and titles (was Suppletion)
On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
> >Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 06:54:24 -0800
> >From: [email protected]
>
> >On Tue, 7 Nov 1995 ~mark wrote:
>
> >>I'm sorry about the homophony of "ta'be'" and "not accomplish"... but then,
> >>I don't hear you complaining about using "ta'" for "King" because it sounds
> >>like it means "accomplish." It's simply the way the language works out.
> >>Homophony happens.
Due to Klingon's phonology, it's no surprise that there is a lot of
homophony. The majority of Klingon words are only one syllable and there
is a limited number of possible combinations.
> >>and also is reminiscient of "ta' be'[nal]" (though it doesn't necessarily mean
> >>just that). This is probably significant, since in my mind "be'ta'" means, if
> >>anything, a reigning queen, i.e. a queen who is the sovereign ruler in her
> >>own right (e.g. Queen Elizabeth), and not a queen who is queen because she
> >>happens to be married to the king. Gertrude is definitely in the latter
> >>category: Claudius is the King, and she is his Royal Consort.
>
> >That sort of makes sense. Working from an English bias though, "queen" by
> >itself does not designate rule. "King" always does, that's why he's Prince
> >Philip. So sticking with that bias I'd use <be'ta'> all the time.
>
> But as you said, that's an English bias. The Klingon ordering seems to
> imply a different meaning to my instincts, and apparently also to yours.
> In that case, having been attested by the instincts of both of us, it would
> be reasonable to conclude that Klingon is likely a language (and by no
> means the only one) which *would* have different words for "queen regnant"
> and "royal consort."
>
> >I guess my basic problem comes with the translation side. <Emperor female>
> >just sounds so weird. If you were using <ta' be'>, <Emperor's female>
> >to indicate a nonruling consort, I'd have no problem.
I think that in Klingon compound nouns, the second noun in the
combination is the primary noun denoting what type of object you are
describing. E.g. {jolpa'} describes a type of room; {Saqghom} describes
a type of group; {tlhIlHal} is a type of source; {may'Duj} describes a
type of vessel; {quprIp} is a type of counsel.
Therefore I think {ta'be'} would be appropriate to describe the female
consort of an emperor, while {be'ta'} would be used if the sovereign
were female.
> ~mark
yoDtargh