tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 08 06:51:57 1995

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Re[4]: ranks and titles (was Suppletion)

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995 ~mark wrote:

>I'm sorry about the homophony of "ta'be'" and "not accomplish"... but then,
>I don't hear you complaining about using "ta'" for "King" because it sounds
>like it means "accomplish."  It's simply the way the language works out.
>Homophony happens.  

Well that's what a King does.  You could consider a sovereign the person who 
actually gets things done.  So I don't have a problem with it.

>It's not really our fault.  "ta'be'" is constructed
>along the lines of "puqbe'" (which is NOT *be'puq), 

Are there any other cannon examples besides son & daughter where the sex comes 
second?

>and also is reminiscient of "ta' be'[nal]" (though it doesn't necessarily mean 
>just that).  This is probably significant, since in my mind "be'ta'" means, if
>anything, a reigning queen, i.e. a queen who is the sovereign ruler in her
>own right (e.g. Queen Elizabeth), and not a queen who is queen because she
>happens to be married to the king.  Gertrude is definitely in the latter
>category: Claudius is the King, and she is his Royal Consort.

That sort of makes sense.  Working from an English bias though, "queen" by 
itself does not designate rule.  "King" always does, that's why he's Prince 
Philip.  So sticking with that bias I'd use <be'ta'> all the time.

>I don't see what the "to be or not to be" cannon (taH pagh taHbe') has to
>do with any of this.

My fault.  I could hear it, but I couldn't remember the verb used.  (They do 
sound alike.)

>You may have quoted them already, but I can't bring them to mind.  Can you
>cite the other cannon examples of "be'" going before the other noun in
>compounds?

be'Hom = girl           loDHom = boy
be'nal = wife           loDnal = husband
be'nI' = sister         loDnI' = brother

Okay, I'll admit they're shaky.  <female/male bone> <female/male ?> and 
<female/male be lengthy>  probably aren't compound words.  But they are 
consistent.

I guess my basic problem comes with the translation side.  <Emperor female> just
sounds so weird.  If you were using <ta' be'>, <Emperor's female> to indicate a 
nonruling consort, I'd have no problem.  


r'Hul

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