tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue May 23 14:58:09 1995
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Re: The `Ring Rhyme' in Klingon
Sometime [email protected] said..
> On Fri, 19 May 1995 15:20:19 -0400, Karl Dyson <[email protected]> said:
> [replying to me]
> >> > "Three rings for the elven kings under the sky"
> >>
> >> Isn't it `Elf-kings' rather than `Elven kings' in the original?
> > My copy says "Elven-kings"
>
> Yes, so does mine. Sorry about that.
What!?! An appology.. can this be so?
> > Be fair.. Okrand was hardly going to invent a word for Elfs..
>
> Certainly not. The thing to do, then, is to borrow the English word,
> given that the Klingons would be most likely to learn about the Elves
> from English speaking Terrans and English literature. If you do so,
> however, you should make it conform to Klingon phonology.
Well since I was only guessing at the phonology.. I didn't notice TKD said
"you must not put a j next to an e like Khalic does!".
Perhaps if I had a better understanding of Klingon phonology then I would't
make such mistakes.. therefore someone should point out how the damn thing
works in the first place.
> > I came accross the problem of no equivalent so I thought I'd make
> > one up for the context of this passage..
>
> But you didn't. *{jelv} is not a possible Klingon word.
Why not? Or is it too much trouble for you to explain this so that I won't
make the same mistake again?
> >> > and used a compound noun with che'wI - Elevn rulers??
> >>
> >> That's {che'wI'}. Try making them `Elf-emperors'.
> > Sorry.. missed of the ' eh!?!
>
> Looks like it. Missing a {'} in Klingon is the same thing as missing
> a {j} or a {tlh}.
..
> >> Hm. {HeghnISbogh Humanpu' jubbe'vaD Hut}?
> > Okay but I was trying to avoid saying that they 'needed'
> > to die.. I'm sure they'd be prefectly happy not too :)
>
> They would; they are not willing to die, but they must.
> {Heghqangbe' 'a HeghnIS}.
Perhaps they must, and perhaps someone else needed them to die but I can't
see why *they* needed themselves to die. Afterall, if they all died then who
would fight the orks? Perhaps the elves.. but who's to say that they
wouldn't lose without the humans..
> > [...] you've mainly criticised me for making up words and rightly
> > so.. but since the intention of the translation was to help me learn
> > to put scentances together..
>
> There is not a single complete sentence in the Rhyme, so its translation
> can't help you learn to put sentences together, although it does contain
> a couple of challenging constructions (we'll probably need to hear Okrand's
> verdict on relativisation before we can translate the last line with any
> confidence; it contains a shared element which is a locative in both the
> main and the subordinate clause).
Aha.. well you are certainly very efficient at using long words to ill-effect.
> > I don't think its too serious.
>
> I thought it was serious enough to warrant a response.
Obviously..
> > [...] you haven't made much of an effort to help me learn anything..
>
> Quite right. I haven't.
I see we agree on something.
> > true its not your job but I was assuming that you would rather
> > promote the language by helping people than consistantly critiscing
> > mistakes!
>
> It is not my job to promote the language. I am, however, willing
> to help people by consistently criticising their mistakes.
Well, may I say that you don't do a very could job at helping people.. at
least not in this case.