tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Sep 03 10:30:16 1994

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Re: -choHmoH



charghwI'vo':

> Rambling through old mail, I saw a message quoting two examples
> from the Useful Klingon Expressions in TKD:
> 
>      nuqDaq waqwIj vIlamHa'choHmoH
>      Du'IHchoHmoH mIvvam
> 
> I found this interesting, in the light of recent discussions
> with Guido#1 and his reading of {-moH} as always implying
> {-choH}, and so {-choHmoH} is never acceptable as a combination
> of suffixes, in Guido's opinion. Yet, there we are with two
> examples. Is Okrand wrong in both examples?
> 
> Inquiring minds wish to know. Discussion, anyone?

I think the two suffixes {-choH} & {-moH} are neither synonymous nor are 
they mutually exclusive.  They each impart a distinct meaning to a verb, 
whether they are used separately or together.  {-choH} is a Type 3 suffix 
while {-moH} is a Type 4 suffix; which implies that they serve different 
functions and the use of one is independent of the use of the other.

I think the dispute has arisen because of the ambiguity of the wording in 
Sec. 4.2.4. because, like Sec. 4.2.3, it talks about a change in 
condition.  But I think the concept of CAUSATION is the important element 
which distinguishes {-moH} from {-choH}.  Sec. 4.2.4 reads, "Adding this 
suffix to a word indicates that the SUBJECT is CAUSING a change of 
condition or CAUSING a new condition to come into existence." (Emphasis 
added.)

>From reading Secs. 4.2.3 & 4.2.4 the conclusions I have drawn are that 
(1) the primary function of {-choH} is to indicate CHANGE; and
(2) the primary function of {-moH} is to indicate CAUSATION.


Examples:
Hurgh pa'		The room is dark.
HurghchoH pa'. 		The room becomes dark.
{-choH} indicates a change is occuring.  The illumination in the room 
changes from light to dark.

Pa' HurghmoH toy'wI'.	The servant darkens the room.  
{-moH} indicates that the subject (The servant) is causing the darkness to 
occur.  The degree of change is not indicated, all we know is that the 
servant causes the room to become somewhat darker than it was before, 
i.e. The servant turns down the light in the room.

Pa' HurghchoHmoH toy'wI'.	The servant makes the room become dark.  
The inclusion of both {-choH} & {-moH} indicates two things:  
(1)  {-choH} means a CHANGE occured.  The room changes from a state of 
brightness to a state of darkness; and
(2) The SERVANT is what CAUSED the room to become dark.
I.e. The servant turned off the light in the room.

In short, I think {-choHmoH} would imply a greater degree of change than 
{-moh} alone.

BaS vItujmoH.	I heat the metal.  (raise the temperature somewhat)
BaS vItujchoHmoH.  I make the metal become hot.  (change the 
temperature from cold to hot)

When I read the expression, {Du'IHchoHmoH mIvvam}, I chuckled because it 
implies {Mivvam DateqDI' vaj bImoH}.

> charghwI'

yoDtargh



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