tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 28 03:30:40 1994
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Re: taglines
- From: Will Martin <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: taglines
- Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 16:28:01 EST
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh!
I CAN'T HELP MYSELF! I NEED TO CORRECT THESE THINGS! I AM DRAWN INTO THE
VACUUM!
On Feb 28, 2:42pm, David Barron wrote:
> Subject: taglines
>
> I have a list of taglines I captured from a Klingon EchoNet. I have not
> corrected them but I can leave that to you.
> meHvo' tlhIngan wo' Duj quttaj
> *From the Bridge of the Imperial Klingon Vessel Crystal Dagger
Try putting {meHvo'} after {Duj}. It's still ugly, but the word "of"
should clue you in to what is wrong with this placement. Somebody has been
using their TKD like a secret decoder ring without learning any of the
grammar... Hmm. I don't really want to take the time to straighten this out,
but I'm guessing:
<quttaj> Dujvam ponglu' [I still feel awkward with referents...]
tlhIngan wo' Duj 'oH
quttaj meHvo'
It really takes three sentences. Meanwhile, to Klingons who know the
ship by name, the last sentence alone would suffice.
> tlhIngan wo' Duj quttaj, Dung jogh, maS Hurgh yo', tlhIngan HIv ghom
> *IKV Crystal Dagger, Northern Quadrant, Dark Moon Fleet, KAG
EEEEEEEeeeeew! I'm not even going to start...
> batlh Daqawlu'taH
> *Translation: You will be remembered with honor.
From the book.
> batlh DavI'be' Dalmo' jagh DaHoHchugh
> *There is no honor in boring an enemy to death.
"You do not accumulate honor because the enemy is boring - if you kill him."
It's actually quite funny just like it is, though it does not nearly map
to the translation. Try:
Heghchugh jagh bIDalmo' batlh DavI'be'
"If the enemy dies because you are boring, you do not accumulate honor."
> bel wIghajtaH'a'
> More [Y,n,=]?
>
> *Are we having fun?
This may or may not be idiomatic to Klingon. {mabeltaH'a'} would say the
same thing without the issue of whether "have pleasure" is the same thing in
Klingon as being pleased.
> be'ngev'eghqangwI' ghaH
> *She's a whore.
I think you work too hard. You nominalize the real verb and then use a
pronoun to get the English "to be" worked in. For more simple clarity, try:
ngev'eghqang be'vetlh
> bInajtaHvIS qeylIS Daghomjaj
> *May you encounter Kahless in your dreams.
Fine.
> bIngSuSDaq reH Qamjaj targhlIj
> *May your Targ always stand down wind!
WejpuH.
> bIngyopwaHwIj yISop
> *Eat my shorts!
Ummm. This could easily be interpreted as, "Eat my shoes." {bIng} means
"under" as in "below", not as in "contained within". Of course, this is not
the kind of message one works hard to make authentic and clear. It started
OUT as an idiom, alluding to activities that would probably be said in
Klingon much more graphically...
> bIr jabchugh nIvbogh nay' 'oH bortaS'e'
> *Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Is this the way Okrand said it? I don't have my little card with me
right now... It doesn't look right. {bIr} doesn't have a grammatical reason
to be in this sentence. It is placed as if it were a noun object of {jab},
but it is a verb, and since there is no noun before it, it is acting as a
verb, and the author is already using {'oH} as the main verb of this
sentence, so we have two main verbs jammed together without any reason.
I sure hope Okrand didn't write that.
> bIrchoH tera'nganchabwij
> *My human pie is getting cold!
wejpuH je
> bIyInjaj nI' 'ej bIchepjaj
> *Live long and prosper.
{nI'} has no grammatical reason to be in this sentence. It is acting
like an adjective of the noun {bIyInjaj}. Unfortunately, that's not a noun.
Try:
nI'jaj yInlIj 'ej bIchepjaj
Since this is a very "toast"-like sentence, it may well be that the
first two words should be reversed, according to the pattern in Okrand's
examples which Krankor has studied and explained:
jInlIj nI'jaj 'ej bIchepjaj
Of course, it is STILL rather conceptually foreign to Klingon....
> DaH bItuQHa'moHegh Deanna 'ej bIQot...
> *Deanna, take off your clothes now, and lie down...
The Klingon part left out the glottal stop (maybe a typo?). The English
is stated as an imperitive, while the Klingon is just a statement. Try:
DaH yItuQHa'moH'egh Deanna 'ej bIQot...
> DaH matIv'a'
> *Are we having fun?
I like this better than the first try.
> Deghmey? Deghmey DIghajnISbe' maH jay'!
> *Badges? We don't need no @^%$! badges!
majQa'
mu'leghvam vIparHa' law' lathmey vIparHa' puS
The only comment is that you don't need {maH}. It's kind of redundant
and rather unusual.
> Doch luQoy DaneHbe'chugh, yIjatlhQo'.
> *If you do not wish a thing to be heard, do not say it.
This is good. I might have said {Qoylu'} instead of {luQoy}, because
that carries more the sense that the "they" in {lu-} is indefinite, instead
of a specific group of people. On the down side, Okrand doesn't give any
examples of {-lu'} suffixed verbs with explicit noun objects. One presumes
that the object would show up in its normal place.
> Duj tIvoqtaH
> *Always trust your instincts.
Been there. Said that.
> DujwIj tIn law' DujlIj tIn pus... may'Duj 'oH DujwIj'e'!
> *My ship is bigger than your ship... My ship is a
> * Battle Cruiser!
I know I've been doing this too long when a lowercase "s" throws me. I
would have expected {-'e'} to have been attached to {may'Duj} instead of
{DujwIj}, just because when I say it in English, that's the word I tend to
say louder. The emphasis is on its being a Battle Cruiser instead of being my
ship. Of course, if you really WANTED to emphasize "my ship", this would be
the right way to do it. Of course that doesn't really link back to the
comparison. Then you are suggesting that your ship is bigger because it is
your ship, rather than because it is a Battle Cruiser.
> logh 'oH, logh 'oH, tIn 'oH, bIr 'oH, Hurgh 'oH...
> *It's space, it's space, it's big, it's cold, it's dark....
Interesting the way we waffle between pronouns as verbs and as just
plain old pronouns...
> loghDaq, bIrSuvwI'pu' chaH Hoch SuvwI'pu''e'
> *In space, all warriors are cold warriors.
Strange. Why not {loghDaq, bIr SuvwI'pu Hoch}?
> Hab SoSlI' Quch!
> *Your mother has a smooth forehead!
Been there. Said that.
> Hagh qoHpu' neH HeghtaHvIS SuvwI'pu'!
> *Only fools laugh while warriors die.
Yep.
> Hovmey So'be' bIngDaq rInbogh Hoch Dochmey luqawlu'
> *All things done beneath the naked stars are remembered..
The placement of Hoch is debatable, but acceptable. "All's things" or
"things of all" sound less natural than "things' all" or "all of things". In
this case, you might just leave out the word {Dochmey} altogether. Then
again, I'm probably unwittingly criticising something Okrand wrote...
> Human bIneH'qu'eghchoHjaj
> *May you WISH to beome human!
I read that as: "May you begin to very much want yourself, Human." It's
much funnier that way. Try {Human DamojchoH DaneHqu'jaj}
> jabwI' qaghwIjDaq ghew puvwI'
> *Waiter, there's a fly in my qagh.
Nice, though {ghew puvwI'} means "bug's flier". I'd probably just say
{ghew}. It doesn't say what kind of bug, but does that REALLY MATTER?
I really can't go on. There are too many things here to address. I'm
hungry. I know Kahless fought for days and I've merely been doing this for a
large chunk of an hour, but I just cannot rationally choose to continue just
now. Perhaps later I'll do more, unless I get advised that it really is not
my appropriate task (which is almost certainly true).
charghwI'