tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 24 03:51:14 1994

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KLBC: All Permutations...



>From: "...Paul" <[email protected]>
>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 15:55:51 -0500
>Content-Length: 1864


>I was just thinking about something that I'm going to do right now, just
>for kicks.  I'm going to take a verb out of the dictionary, and apply just
>about every suffix to it, and try to translate the results into English.
>Why do this?  I dunno, but it sounded like a good idea.  Maybe I'll get
>something wrong in translation, and someone can help out.

>What word to use?  How about vIH:  to move.

Not the best choice, as it turns out.  See, we are told in the definition
that "vIH" means "to move" in the *intransitive* sense, i.e. to be in
motion.  Some of your translations are predicated on the assumption that it
can be transitive too, like English.

>vIHchuq:  To move each other?
>vIH'egh:  <doesn't work?>

Neither works.  Both -'egh and -chuq only make sense on transitive verbs.
To move each other would be "vIHchuqmoH" (yes, I know it seems more
sensible to say "*vIHmoHchuq", but we don't.  Cope.  See the suffix-class
numbers.)

>vIHbeH:  <subject> is ready to move (devices)
>vIHnIS:  <subject> needs to move
>vIHqang:  <subject> is willing to move
>vIHrup:  <subject> is ready to move (being)
>vIHvIp:  <subject> is afraid to move
>vIHchoH:  <subject> is starting to move
>vIHqa':  to move again

Right, but remember that it's "to move" in the sense of "move itself".

>vIHmoH:  to cause to move, to move <object>

*This* is the transitive "moving".

>vIHlu':  something moves?

According to the discussion we're having regarding -lu', yes.  charghwI'
doesn't like this usage, it should be noted.

>vIHtaH:  is being moved

No, is moving.  Is being moved implies an agent and a causative.

>vIHta':  has been moved

Has moved.  Same as vIHpu', except with volition.

>vIHneS:  <doesn't work?>

Works, I guess...  "It moves" (same as "vIH"), with the added implication
that I'm addressing the person I'm talking to politely.  cf. "DojneS
mIplIj" from CK: Your welth is impressive, your honor.

>I'll leave out all the clause markers for simplicity...

>vIHghach:  movement?

If permitted; there's some disagreement.

>vIHjaj:  may move

More like "may it move"; "may move" sounds like a conditional or something.
This is a wish of sorts.

>vIHwI':  mover

Thing that is in motion, not thing that is moving other things.

>vIHbe':  to not move, to leave motionless

To *remain* motionless, not to leave something else motionless.

>vIHHa':  to move back, to replace

Not to me; sounds more like "to move badly" or "move wrongly".  I've never
seen a "back" meaning to "-Ha'"

>vIHqu':  to MOVE!
>vIHQo':  don't move

More like "to refuse to move".

>What has this shown?  Dunno.  But it was kinda neat.  Obviously we can
>put these things together:

>vIHHa'vIpqa':  subject is afraid to move object back.

No, see, you have a subject and an object here, and vIH only takes a
subject.  You need "-moH" for that.  And I still don't buy "vIHHa'" for
"move back".

>For anyone poetically inclined, I'd venture to say there are a couple of
>overlapping meanings (or at least, overlapping expressions) here.  If
>you don't want someone moving something, you can use vIHQo'; but might
>I suggest vIHbe' (when given as a command) as a suitable replacement?  I'm
>not sure I can come for a reason why:

>yIvIHbe' isn't any different than yIvIHQo'.

I can: *yIvIHbe' isn't used for obscure reasons: it says so in black ad
white on page 47, Section 4.3.  "The suffix -be' cannot be used with
imperative verbs."

>...Paul



~mark



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