tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Feb 13 23:28:50 1994

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Re: prefixes on pronouns

charghwI' responds to Krankor:

     While I respect no other so much as my captain, I must protest this
business of yISoH.

> I suppose one could, in similar form, use SaH for the "be in a place"
> meaning of "to be":
> 
>     pa'wIjDaq jIHtaH            "I am in my quarters"
>     wej rep pa'wIjDaq yISaH     "Be in my quarters at 3:00"

                     wej rep pa'wIjDaq yIpaw 
       "Arrive in my quarters at *THREE MINUTES AFTER MIDNIGHT*" {{:)>
or
               wa'maH vagh vatlh rep pa'wIjDaq HIghom
                 "Meet me in my quarters at 3:00 PM"

     Here, I'd like to point out a number of inconsistencies in Okrand's
treatment of numbers and time. First, he says in the definitions of TKD that
{-maH} is a "number-forming element", but he says that {vagh} is a "number",
with no notation that it is a number-forming element, though in TKD 5.2, he
definitely uses {-vagh} as a number-forming element that does not stand
alone.

     He errs twice according to his own rules in time examples in CK, once
using {vagh rep} for "5:00 AM", when all his rules and examples make it clear
that it SHOULD be {vaghvatlh rep}, and he says {cha'maH wa'vatlh rep} for
noon, which is really 8:00PM (if {vatlh} is a number-forming element) or
9:00PM {cha'maH wa' vatlh rep} if it is a number. All of this would be a LOT
less confusing if he didn't try to say "Twelve Hundred Hours" {wa'maH cha'
vatlh rep} instead of "One Thousand Two Hundred Hours" {wa'SaD cha'vatlh
rep}, just because the Military says it that way in English. Even if he had
not reversed {cha'} and {wa'}, it would have been ambiguous, being either
twelve hundred hours or ten two-hundred hours (8:00PM? since there is a space
between {wa'maH} and {cha'vatlh}.

     In general, I think it is a mess. Okrand messes this up as often as he
gets it straight according to his own rules, and nobody else seems to do it a
whole lot better. [End of Rampage.] 

> So, ok, how would you do one where we really do mean *to be* the thing, not
> just to act like it?  Here are versions with yISoH.  Any alternatives?
> 
> Worf, to Riker, who's vascillating (*again!*) about whether to accept
> yet another promotion to captain of some other ship:
> 
>     "HoD yISoHvIpQo'!"      'Don't be afraid to be [a] captain!'

     As I believe ~mark suggested:

      "HoD yImojvIpQo'!"    "Don't be afraid to become [a] captain!"
or perhaps better:
      "HoD yImojvIpchoHQo'!

     I don't like the placement of {-Qo'} here, but TKD 4.3 gives me no
choice. I want "Don't be afraid the change to be a captain!" or even "Change
to not be afraid to be a captain!" but this looks like, "Don't change to be
afraid to be a captain!" Maybe it IS better without {-choH}...

> Here, I don't think Da cuts it.  We're not talking about behavior, we're
talking about accepting the rank and actually *being* one.
> 
> How about:  Worf, talking to Odo:
> 
>     "tlhIngan yISoH!"       'Be a Klingon!'

       "tlhIngan yIrur!"      "Resemble a Klingon!"
      "tlhIngan yIchen!"      "Take the form of a Klingon!" 
                    {tlhIngan yIchen'egh?}

 
> Here, Worf really *is* telling him to change form {{;-)
> 
> And a perhaps murkier one:  Worf giving Data a costuming suggestion
> for the upcoming Halloween party in 10 Forward:
> 
>     "HaghmoHwI' yISoH"      'Be a clown.'

     "HaghmoHwI' Sut yItuQmoH'egh"      "Put on a clown's clothing."
     "HaghmoHwI' yIrur"                 "Resemble a clown."
 
     Again, I respect and serve my captain. While I lack his experience, I
hope that he accepts my suggestions as he might accept logistics suggestions
in battle from one of his trusted soldiers... We are not competitors here. We
seek a higher glory for ALL Klingons.

charghwI'

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