tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 11 15:33:55 1994
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stylistics
>...
>> Yeah. It doesn't translate into English well, does it. I think it's still
>> good Klingon, but that's just me...
>>
>> Nick.
> That's my only criticism of your notoriously idiomatic style. You are
>writing something that only you can understand, and you do so in quantity.
It
>is the same problem I have with Proechel, though for different reasons. I
>actually respect your position more than Proechel's from what I've seen, but
>in both cases it conflicts with my own goals with the Klingon language. I
>want to place the burden upon the person translating from English to Klingon
>and I want to REDUCE the burden of the person translating from Klingon to
>English. There's enough burden there already.
Yes, it's those neologisms Nick's so fond of. When I come across a term or
idea that Klingon doesn't express well, if at all, I change the construction,
but try to carry the same semantic pattern. E.g., there is no word for
"castle", so instead of making something up like *{naghqachche'wI'juH}, I
just change it to {tengchaH}. I've never gotten one complaint about any of my
"creative liberties", so they must be working well.
But I think you are falling into the trap of thinking that Klingon is only as
understandable as its English translation. This is exactly the opposite of
how I believe languages work, at least with languages as different from
English as Hol is.
People on the list are far too concerned with translation. Translation is
rather inefficient. It wastes time in thought processes, and translated
versions never do the original version justice. Try thinking directly in Hol.
I myself have long since abandoned using any sort of translating when writing
in Hol or reading someone else's Hol. I only translate as a final, last
resort, when the construction just cannot be interpreted as anything logical.
And usually when I must resort to translation, I find that it is only when
I'm dealing with people who try to match English and Klingon structure too
closely anyways. Now, I realize that translations are about the only way for
beginners to get off the ground in learning languages, but they should be
abandoned as soon as possible, to achieve a level of thought occuring
directly within that particular language's mindset.
Even so, Nick's style does often carry across meanings that are extremely
vague. But translating into English usually makes it worst, because the
tlhIngan mindset is so far removed from that of most native English speakers.
My advice to Beginners, stay away from poetic translations. Anyone
translating Shakespearean poetry into Hol is restricted in vocabulary by the
distortion of historical semantics and grammar that must be fit into a poetic
form matching rhythm and rhyme of the original version. Not easy. Plus,
translating back into English virtually always yields something entirely
different from the first version.
> I want to write things in Klingon that are as clear and unambiguous as
>possible. It would be a copout for me to fall back to, "If you can't
>understand what I was trying to say, then that is a reflection of lack of
>skill on YOUR part." I go WAAAAY out of my way to avoid that.
Of course.
> It is just a difference in style. I will not inflate my significance
>enough to think my style is superior to yours. Here, I am just trying to
>share my perspective on how our styles seem different and why I embrace such
>a difference. I'm sure the world of tlhIngan Hol needs advocates for many
>different such styles.
I think everyone has a different idea about what Hol should be. Some of us
think of it as no more than a linguistic plaything, and take it no more
seriously than any other aspect of Trek. There are those who are
uncomfortable under the beaurocracy of Okrand and the Grammarians, and might
not mind seeing a shift in control of the language (even a slight one) toward
a larger arena. BTW, this forum and HolQeD are a big step in that direction.
Such factors are a great influence to personal style.
[...]
>charghwI'
Guido#1, Leader of All Guidos