tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 06 12:34:07 1993
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new klingon proverbs
- From: [email protected] (Mark E. Shoulson)
- Subject: new klingon proverbs
- Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 15:19:27 -0500
- In-Reply-To: Will Martin's message of Fri, 3 Dec 93 10:02:13 EST <[email protected]>
>From: Will Martin <[email protected]>
>Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 10:02:13 EST
>On Nov 29, 3:29pm, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
>> How about "SuvwI' nIv ghopDu'Daq 'oHDI', chuS'ugh rur jagh Hugh" (or invert
>> the last two noun phrases depending on which meaning you want). This along
>> the lines of "matay'DI' vIHtaHbogh bIQ rur mu'qaDmey" (between us, curses
>> flow like water) from PK.
>>
>> ~mark
>I like the suggestion a lot. It struck me as funny and accurate, and
>LESS ambiguous than English. The only assumption is that rur is not as
>specific to vision as "resemble" tends to be in English. It must be able to
>also mean "sounds like", "feels like" or otherwise "is similar in some way
>to". The PK example reinforces this assumption.
>As for the PK example, again, the Klingon is more meaningful than the
>translation: "When (as soon as) we are together, challenge words resemble
>running water." That touches the meaning more than: "Between us, curses flow
>like water." Meanwhile, English speakers might digest the weaker translation
>with greater ease. {{:)>
Blah... *large* quantities of email to wade through today! Just a comment
on this (thanks for the compliment, BTW!) I think I now see the difference
between "-DI'" and "-taHvIS". Both indicate a certain simultaneity: A-DI'
B and A-taHvIS B both imply that A and B have overlapping time-periods.
But I think we can see a difference if we study how they're used and
translated. "-taHvIS" seems to imply no causality, and more importantly no
exclusivity. A-taHvIS B means that B happened while A was, but B might
also happen before or after it. "-DI'" seems to imply that B happens when
A does *but not before* (hence the gloss "as soon as"). This indirectly
gives a feeling of causality, but there need not be an actual causal
relationship. So here, "-DI'" is the right thing: an enemiy's throat
resembles a musical instrument when it's in the hands of a warrior... but
not before. 'uQ maSoppu'DI' maja'chuq: we will talk after dinner. We talk
when we have finished eating dinner but not before. I'll try to develop
this a little better and get evidence and such...
>-- charghwI'
~mark