tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Dec 06 12:34:07 1993

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new klingon proverbs

>From: Will Martin <>
>Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 10:02:13 EST

>On Nov 29,  3:29pm, Mark E. Shoulson wrote:
>> How about "SuvwI' nIv ghopDu'Daq 'oHDI', chuS'ugh rur jagh Hugh" (or invert
>> the last two noun phrases depending on which meaning you want).  This along
>> the lines of "matay'DI' vIHtaHbogh bIQ rur mu'qaDmey" (between us, curses
>> flow like water) from PK.
>> ~mark

>I like the suggestion a lot. It struck me as funny and accurate, and
>LESS ambiguous than English. The only assumption is that rur is not as
>specific to vision as "resemble" tends to be in English. It must be able to
>also mean "sounds like", "feels like" or otherwise "is similar in some way
>to". The PK example reinforces this assumption.

>As for the PK example, again, the Klingon is more meaningful than the
>translation: "When (as soon as) we are together, challenge words resemble
>running water." That touches the meaning more than: "Between us, curses flow
>like water." Meanwhile, English speakers might digest the weaker translation
>with greater ease.  {{:)>

Blah... *large* quantities of email to wade through today!  Just a comment
on this (thanks for the compliment, BTW!)  I think I now see the difference
between "-DI'" and "-taHvIS".  Both indicate a certain simultaneity: A-DI'
B and A-taHvIS B both imply that A and B have overlapping time-periods.
But I think we can see a difference if we study how they're used and
translated.  "-taHvIS" seems to imply no causality, and more importantly no
exclusivity.  A-taHvIS B means that B happened while A was, but B might
also happen before or after it.  "-DI'" seems to imply that B happens when
A does *but not before* (hence the gloss "as soon as").  This indirectly
gives a feeling of causality, but there need not be an actual causal
relationship.  So here, "-DI'" is the right thing: an enemiy's throat
resembles a musical instrument when it's in the hands of a warrior... but
not before.  'uQ maSoppu'DI' maja'chuq: we will talk after dinner.  We talk
when we have finished eating dinner but not before.  I'll try to develop
this a little better and get evidence and such...

>--   charghwI'


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