tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Dec 03 13:59:32 1993

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Re: Esther I 1-9



Mark E. Shoulson says:
: 
: 
: >From: laibow@brick.purchase.edu (Marnen Laibow-Koser)
: >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 19:02:49 EST
: 
: Well, having said my last letter, I might as well check out what you have.
: 
: >bo'Dijnuv	courtier
: 
: How 'bout "chuQun", especially if you're using it in the plural?  I'm not
: sure which meaning of court is "bo'DIj"; my impression would be the legal
: one, and I don't know how comfortable I'd feel about extending the polysemy
: of English over to Klingon.
I think you're right about >bo'Dij<; I didn't want to use >chuQun< since I was
trying to reserve it to translate "nobles".

: 
: >*HoDu*		India
: >*linen*		linen
: >*meDiya*	Media
: 
: Aww, if you're going to stick with transliterations for "hodu" (which I
: think is the right thing), then be consistent: the ropes were made of
: "butz" (butlh, maybe?), and it was "maday"
Good idea...my Hebrew is very shaky, so I was working from English, which
perhaps explains some of the errors in my translation.

: 
: >*meghila*	megilla
: 
: Ah, call it a book; that's all it is.
: 
: >1. qaStaHviS *HoDu* *quS* je jojDaq wa'vatlh cha'maH yoS'a'mey che'pu'bogh
: >   *'aHaSweroS* jajmey qaSpu' wani'mey.
: 
: wanI'meyvam might be more useful, but that's no big deal.  Take what I said
: in the last letter about "-pu'" as read.
>-pu'< was one of the big questions I had. I agree with you that I probably
overused it, but here I think it's appropriate. (And yes, I meant
>wani'meyvam<. Hivqa' veqlargh.)

: 
: >2. *SuSa* veng jenDaq ta'quSDajDaq ba'pu'Di' ta' *'aHaSweroS*,
: >3. qaStaHviS che'ghachDaj DiS wejDich yaSpu'DajvaD bo'Dijnuvpu'DajvaD je 'uQ'a
: '
: 
: As I recall, it's a banquet for all his officers and servants.  Maybe
: yaSpu'Daj/chuQunDaj toy'wI'pu'Daj je?
I don't have the text handy right now, but I think it said "officials and
courtiers".

: 
: >   chenmoHpu' *'aHaSweroS*. SaHpu' *perSiya* *meDiya* je mangghom yaSpu',
: >   chuQun, yoS'a' che'wi'pu' je,
: 
: Me, I'd leave off the king's name here, since it's not mentioned in the
: original: it's just [he] made (the pronoun is implicit in the verb, like in
: Klingon).
I think the translation I was using had the name explicit.

: 
: >4. 'ej qaStaHviS jajmey law', qaStaHviS biD DiS, wo'Daj mipghach DojghachDaj
: >   Dunghach je 'angpu'.
: 
: bID DIS?  So a Persian year was just 360 days long?  I'm sorry, I shouldn't
: be correcting like this, but I'm afraid that in the way I do things anyway,
: especially when you're translating something like the Bible, which is
: well-known, you should do your best to say what *it* says and not recast
: it.  The text says one hundred and eighty days, and there's a perfectly
: good way to say that in Klingon, isn't there?
Sure there is. The translation I used said "half a year". You want >wa'vatlh
chorghmaH jajmey<, you got it! ;>

: 
: >5. rintaHDi' wani'vam, *SuSa* veng jenDaq Qongbogh loDpu' HochvaD ta' qachHom
: >   Du'HomDaq Soch jaj yupma' chenmoHpu' ta'. potlhwi'vaD potlhbe'wi'vaD je
: >   chenmoHpu'.
: 
: not sure what the "-taH" adds on rIntaHDI'.  And it's the days that are
: over, right?  The word you translate here as yupma' is the same one you
: called an 'uQ'a' before.  I suppose either one is okay, but you should be
: consistent.  Your breaking out of the "great and small" into a separate
: sentence is creative, and I can't really fault it; it keeps things from
: being really incomprehensible.
I think you're right about the >-taH<; >rinDi'< or >rintaHviS< would be better.
As for what's finished, I believe the text I was using said "when all this was
over" or some such. (It also had "banquet" where I put >'uQ'a'< and "party"
where I put >yupma'<. There's method in my madness! ;> )

: 
: >6. 'iHchoHmeH Du'Hom, baS chiS QebmeyDaq *linen* tlheghHommey nagh chiS tutmey
: >   Doq *qoton* ngupmey chiS Doq je lurarlu', 'ej *porviriy* nagh chiS naghmey
: >   wovghachmey Sar je naghHom let 'iH ravDaq baS chiS baS SuD je quS'a'mey. 
: 
: Again, I have to wonder how you know these things happened to beautify the
: courtyard.  They were probably there to show off, but no purpose is
: mentioned at all in the text.  Cotton?  As I recall, it says, "[there were]
: white, green, and blue [hangings] held with cords of <butz> and purple, on
: silver rods and marble columns".  Well, I guess I can accept "cotton",
: since the word for "white" is a particular kind of cloth, not a color.  But
: where are the various cords?  Now here we have a problem, what do you do if
: there really isn't a good word, like for purple?  And green and blue are
: both SuD.  Rather than drive yourself nuts describing the pavement, just
: leave it as "a floor of silver and gold etc"; that's all it really says.
Once again, the text I used is at fault: it specifically said "cotton" and
"linen". reH Suvrup Suvwi''a'.

: 
: >7. 'ej baS SuD Hivje'meyDaq tlhutlhlaHwi'mey lujablu'pu', 'ej Hivje'mey Hoch
: >   pimchuq; 'ej ta' Hiq law'bejqu' tu'lu'pu' -- 'e' ghajniS ta'.
: 
: tlhutlhlaHwI'mey?  things that can drink?  Tough problem, that one.
: Word-order wrong in "HIvje'mey Hoch pImchuq"; should have the verb first.
Hu'tegh baQa'! bilughbej.

: Not sure what "ghajnIS ta'" is for, but it's probably a reasonable
: interpretation. 
"As befits a king".

: 
: >8. 'ach chut lobbe'pu' tlhutlhghach: ra'pu' pagh; tlhutlh luneHDi' mebpu' Hoch
: >   jab jabwi'pu' 'e' ghaH ra'pu' ta'.
: >9. ta' *'aHaSweroS* ta' juHDaq be'pu'vaD yupma' chenmoHpu' be'ta' *vaStiy*
: >je.
: 
: Maybe ta'be' for queen: king's wife.  Likely sexist, but perhaps it's
: correct in this case (though if I recall my midrash correctly it isn't: it
: was Vashti who had the royal blood, being of the family of Nebuchadnezzar,
: and Ahasuerus used to be a horse-washer.  Note also that from Ahasueros'
: point of view, Vashti is always called "Vashti the Queen", while from her
: POV it's "Queen Vashti".  But I digress.)
Could be. I think I was influenced by Japanese "jo-oosama", which means "woman
king".

: 
: ~mark
: 
: 
Thanks for taking the time to go over this.

Qapla' Qichqemwi'vo'.
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