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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Canon and feelings for translating be-verbs with "there"

lojmIt tI'wI' nuv ([email protected]) 

<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>You create a problem by putting a noun suffix on a pronoun while using it as a verb, and besides, even if it worked, and it doesn't, you'd be saying, "This it is a pie." One presumes you'd rather say, "It is this pie," or "This pie is it."</div><div><br></div><div>chabvam 'oH.</div><div><br></div><div>Your longer sentence means, "This thing is a pie."</div><div><br></div><div>Note there is no article in Klingon, so "a" and "the" do not directly translate. Either context or more focused grammar would be needed to differentiate the meaning between the definite or indefinite article.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>If you really mean, "This is THE pie," you might have to go as far as something like one of the following:</div><div><br></div><div>chabvam 'oH; yapbe' latlh.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>potlh chabvam neH.</div><div><br></div><div>chabvam vIDelta'bogh 'oH.</div><div><br></div><div>SoHvaD chabvam vIngu'lI'.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Likely, a better long version would be:</div><div><br></div><div>Doch 'oH chabvam'e'.</div><div><br></div><div>This pie is the thing.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The "this" is, in all cases you suggest, referring to the pie, not the pronoun.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>For "That is the captain." I'd probably say:</div><div><br></div><div>pa' HoD'e' ghaHtaH.</div><div><br></div><div>The topic marker isn't grammatically necessary, but you seem to be expressing that the captain is the topic.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>English uses the word "that" a lot of different ways. Klingon has no such word, but instead has {-bogh} for its use as a relative pronoun, {pa'} for its use when you point to indicate an object and shout "THAT!" and {-vetlh} when it's used as an adjective.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Likely others will think of other uses and other constructions, but the point is, you need to reach beyond translating words and instead dwell in a realm where you express ideas using the tools of Klingon as a language.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>New speakers need to express simpler things and acquire complexity at a natural pace over time.&nbsp;</div><div><br>Sent from my iPod</div><div><br>On Apr 7, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Brad Wilson &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font color="black" size="2" face="arial">
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<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_492e7633-c08c-49f5-a83f-29315f6517af" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">For what's it's worth, I am quite comfortable with {law' 'Iw}. To specify "where" the blood is abundant, one could add {naDev} or some other locative if it wasn't implicit in the statement.</font></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a somewhat related question. Is it acceptable to add {-vam/-vetlh} to {'oH} to render something like this </font><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">{chab 'oHvam} "this is the pie"</span></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">Resorting to something like {chab 'oH Dochvam'e'} seems rather verbose for Klingon.</span></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">If so, then perhaps {HoD ghaHvetlh} "that is the captain"</span></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;">gheyIl</span></pre><pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;"><br>
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