tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Mar 20 11:53:38 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] {warjun} {tlher} je

lojmIt tI'wI'nuv ([email protected]) 

<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>A mono-syllabic verb with a suffix is not a polysyllabic verb. {lo'laH} is not, as it appears, the verb {lo'} meaning "use" plus the suffix {-laH} "ability". nuH vIlo'laH. "I am able to use the weapon." {lo'laH nuH}. "The weapon is useful." It may look and sound alike, but it isn't. {lo'laH nuH vIlo'laH.} "I can use a useful weapon." This polysyllabic adjectival version of the word was probably a mistake that became canon, but now, because it is canon, it's a separate verb.</div><div><br></div><div>{HoSghaj} is probably a combination of a noun and verb to form a polysyllabic verb. Likely, they were two words used together so often they just merged.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for reminding me about {ghIpDIj}, {nughI'} (I remember when this word was invented), and {He'So'}. Also, thank you for making me filter through my database. I found several errors.</div><div><br></div><div>We might also have to include {nga'chuq}.</div><div><br></div><div>Even so, that's six disyllable verbs out of what I count as 908 non-derivative verbs. That's 902 monosyllabic verbs. That's a pretty strong trend. So, when wanting to make a verb meaning "lumpy" out of Clarence Rutherford's name, there's pressure to call it {tlher} and not {tlherenSe'}, since that would create the first trisyllable verb in the language, and the concept of being lumpy is just not important enough to be that exceptional.</div><div><br></div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:08 PM, André Müller wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Okay, but these two are bimorphemic, consisting of two parts, like derivations or compounds. There are much more polysyllabic verbs of that kind ({choptaH}, {ghomHa'}, {ghojmoH}, {boqHa''egh} etc., there are quite a lot). More interesting are the bisyllabic verbs that cannot be derived from monosyllabic morphemes, I found:<br>
<br>{ghIpDIj} = to court-martial<br>{nughI'} = to twist one's knuckle into someone's head<br>{He'So'} = to stink (while the first part means "to smell", the second part doesn't logically seem to be derivable from {So'} "to hide")<br>
<br>These are all I could find. I might have missed one or two, though.<br><br>This also reminds me of Thai, a language in which almost all native monomorphemic verbs and adjectives are also monosyllabic, while there are many monomorphemic polysyllabic nouns. A polysyllabic verb that cannot be split into two meaningful components is usually an indicator for being borrowed from some other language like Pali, Khmer or Sanskrit, or having undergone a phonetic process which splitted a consonant cluster up by inserting an epenthetic vowel and thereby creating another syllable.<br>
<br>- André<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/20 lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Drat! Replied to the sender instead of the list again. Bleah!<br>
<br>
tlher = Clarence because {tlher} is a verb, and except for {HoSghaj} and {lo'laH}, I'm pretty sure that all the verbs are monosyllabic. Those two verbs are "special". {tlher} is less "special".<br>

<br>
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv<br>
<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 19, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Terrence Donnelly wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; HIvqa' veqlargh.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Lumpy's sister was named Violet. I don't know if there was a Claire on that show.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -- ter'eS<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --- On Mon, 3/19/12, Terrence Donnelly &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; From: Terrence Donnelly &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] {warjun} {tlher} je<br>
&gt;&gt; To: <a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>, "Robyn Stewart" &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Date: Monday, March 19, 2012, 5:47 PM<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --- On Mon, 3/19/12, Robyn Stewart &lt;<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Does anyone know the pun behind {tlher}?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I can't remember whether it was the Beaver or his big<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; brother, but one of them had a pal named Lumpy.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The Beaver's big brother, Wally, had a friend named Clarence<br>
&gt;&gt; Rutherford, who was nicknamed Lumpy. His little sister, who<br>
&gt;&gt; was in Beaver's class, was named Claire.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; -- ter'eS<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
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