tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jul 29 14:30:50 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay' 1 - DujlIj yIvoq

Robyn Stewart ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

At 06:29 '?????' 7/29/2012, Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh wrote:


ghItlhpu' Qov, jatlh:
> Also I just realized that you're deliberately leaving a space
> between the guillemets and the text. Who else likes that better?

jIjangpu', jIjatlh:
> Partly I do that because of my experience with French guillemets,
> but it also looks less crowded IMHO.

jatlh je Qov:
> I knew you liked it better, because you did it. I
> was fantasizing that someone else was reading,
> too. :-)

Oh, I know (and I was kinda hoping myself!).

> Also I would have to add hard spaces everywhere, and that's too
> much like work.

Ah. I hadn't thought of that... definitely a useful point. You may
convince me yet.
I pulled all my non-English novels off the shelf and looked through at the different techniques. It's funny how much you don't see, once you accept that that's speech. I still haven't figured out the typographical rules for Russian, which sometimes uses the seagulls (I can't find an English name for them, but "seagulls" is perfect because a) they look like sideways seagulls and b) guillemot is a sort of seabird. 


jIH:
> maS'e' So'choHbogh QIb wov law' Hov wov puS, 'ej vaj qabbogh
> qeSlIj'e' nIv law' QaQbogh qeS'e' lunobbogh latlh nIv puS.

Qov:
> I stumbled over 'ej vaj, preferring vaj aone.

jIH:
> Fair enough. An adverb for "in the same way" or "likewise" is very
> high on my wishlist.

Qov:
> I have wanted one for a while. Recently, I think
> in e-mail to you, I experimented with jaSHa'. No results yet.

I like that. "No differently." Hm - maybe we can ask Marc about it
at qep'a'.


jaS jatlhlu'chugh vaj nuSovmoHlaH.


jIH:
> [2] Relocating to Qo'noS as the Klingon Hamlet did. As a result
> there's a lot of Christian references to tone down, so there'll
> be a lot of vague QI'tu's and qeylISes.

Qov:
> Daj. We're talking Georgia as in Gruzinskaya,
> no? I would have thought it was Muslim. ghorgh qaS?

jIH:
> Yep, that's the one (Sakartvelo). It adopted Christianity as the
> state religion in 319 AD and it's remained so since then.

Qov:
> I did not know that. Literacy often travels with religion,

Absolutely. Most of the earliest Georgian inscriptions are from
old monasteries and churches, or religious texts and I think it
might be why the Georgian alphabet was devised in the first place.
Very cool. The Russian alphabet is essentially most of the Greek alphabet with a few tweaks, plus a few Hebrew letters tacked on the end for sounds Greek doesn't approach, so as Georgian didn't look anything like Greek or Latin I assumed they made it up themselves or got it somewhere else. But now that I see the letters individually (I'd only seen the script in sentences, on Soviet multilingual inscriptions and the like) I can see the Greek. I guess if you have a creative and inspired missionary, you get a new script. I wonder if there are any diaries or records surviving from such first millennium evangelists. They didn't have modern or potentially any linguistics training to go on, but some of them seem to have bestowed the right squiggles on their proselytes. 


> whoa, I just looked up the Georgian alphabet on Wikipedia to
> see if there was a name for the script family, I'd assumed it
> was related to Arabic, but that is one messy mess. They have
> three separate alphabets.

HIja'! 'ach nIpon Hol Deghmey rurbe'chu'. notlh cha'; wa' neH
lulo' DaHjaj Georgianganpu' 'ej Holchaj QIch wabmey 'oSchu' (it's
fully phonemic).
Wikipedia De' lut vIlaDta'. Dun! Hol vIparHa'bej. loDnalwI'vaD jIjatlh, "'Italya' wIghoSpu'DI' Georgia wIghoS 'e' Dachaw''a'?" 

jatlh, "Sure."

wa' Doch lIjpu' ghaH. vIneHDI' vIruch, 'ej ghIb vay' 'e' vIlIjbe'.


> You're reading this in an English translation, or you know
> Georgian?

Nope, it's coming from a translation, though it's a highly regarded
one that follows the original verse-by-verse and has a bundle of
annotations on the nuances of the original Georgian. (Also in the
public domain, which is handy.) With the help of good dictionaries
I can also puzzle out bits of the original if the translation is
unclear.
I wasn't implying, by the way, that the project required working from the original, I was just preparing to be stunned and impressed if fluency in Georgian was among your talents. As it is, lut vItIvlI'. latlh! latlh!
- Qov 

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