tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Oct 01 16:06:27 2011
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] chIjwI' tIQ bom: 'ay' jav
At 07:07 24/09/2011, lab QeS:
chIjwI' tIQ bom: 'ay' jav
juHDaq jIHqa'taHmo' DaH vIlaDchoH.
As usual:
My understanding,
[my comments before reading the original]
{my comments after reading the original}
Oddly the grammar seems pretty straightforward here, but I had little
idea what was going on before checking the English.
(ghogh wa'DIch)
(First voice)
< HIja', HIja', qaqoy', yIjatlh!
ghogh tam yIlo'qu'qa'!
nom Dujvetlh jaHmoHtaHqu' nuq?
nuq rInmoHtaH bIQ'a'? >
Yes, tell me, I beg you, speak!
[Didn't know if it was yes or tell me, so I split the difference :-) ]
Again make best use of your quiet voice.
What makes that ship go quickly on and on?
What is the ocean bringing to pass?
(ghogh cha'DIch)
(second voice)
< joH toy'bogh toy'wI''a' rur 'oH,
It's like a master served by a slave,
[or a slave serving a master, but doesn't seem to matter]
{Ahh, omitting the "still as" concept leaves this phrase completely
unrelated to the rest. I was left with no way to know HOW the ocean
resembled a slave/master setup.}
bIQ'a'Daq Dach bey tIn;
There's a great howl missing from the ocean.
[There's no roar left in the ocean?]
chalDaq vIHtaHbogh maS bejtaH
bIQ'a' tInqu'bogh mIn -
The ocean's great eye watches the moon moving in the sky.
[I want it to be saying that the moon is the ocean's great eye, but I
can't find a way to parse it that does that].
{Nope, it really does claim that the great eye of the ocean is
watching the moon. Go figure.}
He qar Sovbe'chugh 'oH, Dev maS
gheghchugh pagh Habchugh He.
If it doesn't know the right way, the moon guides it, be the way
rough or smooth. [Okay, perfect grammatical sense, but I'm suspense
to read the English to see if it makes any more sense].
{I still don't know who is the he and she of this verse: mariner,
ship, or sea.}
yIleghchoH! > jatlh, < bejtaHvIS, batlh
bIQ'a''e' bejtaH je. >
<Look!> it [presumable the ghogh cha'DIch] said <while it [the
ocean's great eye?] watches, [someone or thing whom or which I
haven't managed to keep track of] also watches the ocean, with honour.
{This is interpretable in English only because the poet sets up the
moon as female and the ocean as male, and even then only barely.}
(ghogh wa'DIch)
< 'ach qatlh nom jaHtaHqu' Dujvetlh?
loj SuS, loj je yu'egh! >
But why does that ship keep going so quickly?
There's neither wind nor wave.
(ghogh cha'DIch)
< tlhopDaq muD'e' pe'lu'pu'qu',
The air has been completely cut out from in front of it. [Holy cow,
it's being pulled forward by a Maxwell's Demon vacuum. This is almost
as cool as the arm biting, and almost certain to be a
misunderstanding on my part.]
'ej Dujvetlh 'emDaq chegh.
And returns behind the ship. [Yeah!]
yIpum, loDnal, Dupepjaj chal!
Fall down man, may the sky raise you. [Hee hee, this is why you came
to accept pep where you formerly required pepmoH, just as you
persuaded me to use pepmoH]
{Ah, I guess you mean puv, not pum, and I bet someone already caught this.}
pagh tugh mapaSchoHqu',
Or soon we will become late. [Ooh, isn't this "or" a "surrender or
die" construction in English, suggesting a need for Dupepbe'chugh
chal vaj tugh mapaSchoHqu' (yeah I know that won't fit, but is this
use of pagh allowed?)]
'ej vemchoHDI' vulbogh chIjwI',
And when the unconscious navigator awakes. [Hey, my story has an
unconscious navigator too!]
QIt lengchoH Duj 'e' tu'. >
He'll find that the ship is travelling slowly.
jIvemchoHDI' lengtaH Dujmaj,
When I awakened our ship was still travelling,
Duj DechtaHvIS muD jot;
With calm air all around;
qaS ram, tam ram, chalDaq jen maS,
Night fell, quiet night, with the moon high in the sky,
{Without a suffix it's hard to distinguish between qaSlI' and qaSchoH senses}
nItebHa' Qam Hegh ghot.
Together the people of death stood. [not quite "dead people"]
nItebHa' choQDaq Qam Hoch chaH,
Together they all stood on the deck.
lom qach pInHey lutu':
They found some manner of boss of this charnel house.
[I'm moving from a mindset of "Klingon doesn't have a word for that"
to "isn't it weird that English has a specific word for that". And
why do I know that word in English?]
{The stories seem to have diverged. Is there an archaic meaning of
fitter that corresponds to pIn? My read on this is that it means
that they are more fit for a charnel house than for the deck of a
ship, not anything to do with bosses. How about something like {lom
qach lunarghlaw'pu'}
mubej mInDu'chaj; bochmoH maS,
Their eyes watched me, the moon illuminated them
Separ rur Hoch mInDu'.
All their eyes were like [some mineral the properties of which I have
forgotten, but I'm going with obsidian.]
{The main problem with the pInHey is not that it isn't accurate, but
that it sets me up to wondering what this corpse lord is about to do,
and I'm not sure if he's part of the shining host later.}
Heghpu'DI' chaH, mu'IghmoH bIH,
When they died they cursed me,
[yeah, I remember that bit, Coleridge. What is this, a show on the
discovery channel?]
jI'IghHa'choHpu'be';
And cursed I still be.
QunwI' vIjatlhlaHmeH chaHvo'
peplaw'Qo' mInwIj'e'.
My eyes won't lift from them for me to pray.
'ej DaH jI'IghHa'choH; SuDbogh
[Why isn't that 'ach instead of 'ej? It seems to be a "I can't but
now I can".]
{Okay, I guess because that's what was in the original.}
bIQ'a' vIleghchoHqa';
And now I am becoming uncursed. I'm beginning to [ha! you did what I'
was caught doing. You can't have a -qa' and a -choH on the same verb,
no matter how much you mean it!] see the ocean again.
'ej Dat vIbejtaH, 'ach taQbogh
wanI' lunge'lu'ta' -
And I watch it everywhere, but the strange events are taken away.
{I'd understand this better if it were jIbejtaH; I wouldn't have to
wonder what it was I was watching. Oh, I see now. I didn't get at all
the relationship between the strange events and the looking.
Coleridge has you beat here with the repetition of saw/seen.
jIbejtaHvIS yItwI' vIrur:
I'm like a walker as I watch.
Hajqu'taHbogh jaHlI';
One who sets out in dread.
'ej nach tlhe'qa'moHtaHQo' ghaH,
And won't turn his head again.
wa'logh tlhe'pu'qu'DI';
Once he has turned it.
ghaH 'emDaq tlha'taH veqlargh mIgh
'e' Sovbejmo' yItwI'.
A walker who knows that the eye of the devil follows him.
{You nailed that stanza.}
'ach jIHDaq tugh tlhuHchoH SuS'e',
But soon the wind would blow on me,
tamqu', pagh vIHmoH je,
It's so quiet, and moves nothing.
bIQ'a' yu'egh QIb je So'be',
It doesn't hide the shadows or the ocean's waves. [Huh?]
bIHvo' Dachlaw' SuS He.
The wind does not seem to have a path from there. [I'm guessing
tlhuDbe', ghoSbe' and the like didn't work for you, so I don't think
I have the right idea here.]
{I still need some help as to why you chose So' there.}
qevpobwIj bIrmoH, jIbwIj pep,
It cools my cheek and lifts my hair.
rur poH ghun ngem SuS'a';
Like a summer forest windstorm
{I was trying to decide whether a poH ghun was spring or summer.}
jIHajtaHqu'mo' jIHvaD Huj,
It was strange because I was so much in dread
'ach tlhoS muvanlaw'ta'.
But it almost seemed to salute me.
{Hey, you got that well}
nom, nom puvlaw' Duj lengtaHvIS,
The ship travelled very very quickly, almost flew
'ach tamtaHqu'vIS jaH:
But it went on in great silence.
reH, reH tlhuHchu' SuS puvtaHvIS -
The wind blew ever and ever as it flew
'ej jIHvaD neH tlhuHtaH.
And it blew only on me.
toH! pay' jIbelchoH! pa' nargh'a'
wovmoHwI' qach yorna'?
Aha, suddenly I was pleased. Is that a real lighthouse that appears?
HuD 'oHbej'a'? chIrgh 'oHbej'a'?
Is it really a mountain? A church?
yoSwIj vIleghlaH'a'?
Can I see my district.
{Interesting. The lack of the definite article in Klingon makes it
impossible to realize that he's finding himself at home until the
yoSwIj, and the lack of repetition makes it less clear overall}.
bIQ Duj vergh DIn wIveghchoHpu',
We had started going through the mouth of the harbour/the entrance to
the marina.
jISaQ 'ej Qun vIja' -
I cried and I told my god(s) -
jIvempu' 'e' vItul, QunwI'!
I hope I have awakened, my god.
pagh jIH HIQongmoHta'. [1]
Or make me have slept again. [Yeah, it's really hard to interpret. I
ignored it on first pass, and then when the footnote forced me to
look at it. I don't think it's a command you could give to anyone
other than a being who had control over time and space.]
{I don't get the "let me sleep away" from it at all. I would think
you would need -taH, not -ta' for that meaning.}
Qorwagh rurchu' vergh tebbogh bIQ,
The water of the harbour was like glass.
Habqu', 'ej Dach yu'egh!
Smooth and without a wave.
'ej bIQDaq bochtaHbogh maSwov
And the moon shone in the water [enough about the damned moon, Coleridge]
'ej maS QIbHey vIlegh. [2]
And I could see the shadow of the moon.
{I think by shadow he means reflection}
boch HuD 'ej wov, 'ej wov 'ej boch
The mountain was shiny and bright, and bright and shiny [oh wow, man, shiny!]
HuD yor jeqbogh chIrgh'e';
was the church that jutted from the top of the mountain.
vIHbe'bogh SuS lurgh permeH noch
For the compass to specify the unchanging wind direction
HaHqu' je maSwov le'. [3]
Also the special moonlight soaked ... [I've given up trying to
understand anything involving the moon]
{Have you decided not to give a damn what the moonlight is soaking in
and just have it go get drunk?}
'ej wovtaH ram, chISqu' bIQ tam;
And the night shone, the quiet white water
pay' 'oHvo' SalchoHchu'
QIb bIHlaw'bogh Doch law'qu''e',
Suddenly a horde of shadowy things leapt out of the sea.
nguv bIH, Hurgh 'ej Doqqu'.
They were dark and really red in colour.
loQ Dujmaj 'et tlhopDaq Sum QIb,
The shadows were just off our bow.
Hurghqu'bogh QIbmey Doq.
Darkest red shadows.
choQDaq mInwIj vIleghchoHmoH -
On the deck I made my eyes see
ghuy'cha'! narghlaw' 'op yoq! [4]
Ye gods, a multitude of humanoids appeared.
yInbe' Hoch lom, Qambe' Hoch lom;
Each corpse neither lived nor stood.
mutoDjaj qeylIS qa'!
May the spirit of Kahless save me
'ach Dat Qam quvbogh loDHey boch,
But everywhere stood honoured shining somewhat-men.
Hoch lomDaq QamtaH wa'.
On each corpses one stood there
rI'meH ghop lo' je Hoch HoSDo':
Each energy being made a hand gesture of greeting
leghlu'meH quv wanI'!
It was an honour to see.
puH rI'wI' rur chaH QamtaHvIS,
'IHqu'bogh wovmoHwI'.
Standing there, they were like [smoke signals? cellphone towers?
telegraph poles? I got nothing], lights of splendor.
rI'meH ghop lo' je Hoch HoSDo':
Each energy being waved in greeting
pagh ja', pagh jat, pagh jach -
None spoke nor mumbled nor screamed.
pagh jatlh; 'ach tIqwIj pIlmoHlu',
Nor spoke, but they inspired my heart.
QoQ rurchu' tamtaHghach.
The silence was just like music.
'ach bIQDaq tugh vo'wI' vIQoy,
But soon I heard a sail [oars?] on the ocean
jachlaw' je vergh DevwI';
The harbourmaster seemed to cry out.
{Okay, that works for maritime pilot}
beymo' nachwIj tlhe'choHmoHlu':
The howl turned my head.
nargh DujHom 'ej nurI'.
A dingy appeared and hailed us.
nom Dujmaj chollI' vergh DevwI',
The harbourmaster rapidly approached our ship.
tlhejtaH je boQDaj'e'.
Accompanied by his assistant.
Hu'tegh! Heghpu'bogh beqpu''e',
belwIj lujeylaHbe'.
Tabarnacle! [It's an old-fashioned Canadian curse word]
Even the dead crew cannot defeat my pleasure.
wejDIch vIlegh - ghoghDaj vIQoy:
I saw the third. I heard her voice. [No reason for picking female.
Have to pick one or the other, and if it made a difference,
presumably it would say so]
jatlhlaw' nugh jeSQo'wI'!
A nun seemed to speak.
[you mentioned that you wanted to replace this with a religious
interpretation of hermit]
chuSqu' ngemDaq Qun bommeyDaj
Her hymns rang out loudly in the forest,
Qoyqu'moHbogh bomDI'.
making them heard when she sang. [I'm missing something in the grammar here.]
{Let me try again: chuSqu' ngemDaq Qun bommeyDaj Qoyqu'moHbogh bomDI'
Can't have a headless relative, so [Qun bommeyDaj Qoyqu'moHbogh] is a
thing: "the hymns that he so makes heard." But wait, that's not the
subject, because there's a type-5-ed noun between it and the verb, so
it must be the object of bomDI': "He's very noisy when he sings the
hymns that he so makes heard in the woods." Oh boy. Klingon is
trapdoor code sometimes.}
It's still fricking amazing that you can make Klingon do this. I
think the popularity of translation over original works is, however,
because it really helps to have the English there to understand where
complex Klingon is trying to go. I hate that about some Klingon.
Perhaps that's part of my fiction motivation, to say "look, Klingon
can stand on its own!"
qa'wI' quvqa'moHbej loDvetlh,
That man will surely bless my spirit. [Okay, so it's a man, not a woman]
jIHvo' yatqap 'Iw bI'.
He swept the blood of the albatross from me.
[1] I'm not hugely sure about how imperatives work with the perfective
aspect suffixes, so I don't know how far I'm reaching. I'd be glad for
opinions.
[2] Probably too literal a translation of the English here, but I have
no idea WTF the shadow of the moon means here in English either.
[3] le' is a copout in the chase for a rhyme, I admit it. But be fair,
the Mariner's just spent a verse and a half rhapsodising about the
moonlight.
[4] yoq is a perfect rhyme for Doq here, but I've had to foreshadow
the seraph-band from the next verse to use it. Not overly happy about
that, but feh.
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