tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 28 11:56:31 2011
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] paq'batlh: TO SPEAK TO SOMEONE OF SOMETHING
<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">So much of the things brought up in the discussion about these new canon collections makes me feel like Okrand suddenly had to come up with a LOT of canon translations for text other people gave him the English for and he got sloppy. <div><br></div><div>Very sloppy.</div><div><br></div><div>It's as if we took some arbitrary person from this list -- someone with less skill with the language than many of us -- and told him to make this stuff up.</div><div><br></div><div>It's very discouraging.</div><div><br></div><div>We get large volumes of new canon full of mistakes and hints at new grammatical constructions without any official analysis or descriptions of grammatical constructions not given to us in TKD or the appendix or anywhere else. So, when we get new vocabulary, how do we know it's not misspelled? When we get new grammar, how do we know it doesn't have editorial errors?</div><div><br></div><div>We're left with a mess.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm very disappointed in Okrand. We've been very loyal to him for a lot of years now, waiting for each little dribble of vocabulary, and then suddenly a couple of companies toss him some money and he sloppily throws new canon at them that is riddled with errors, and we get to try to figure out this new version of the language without a new TKD to help us understand it.</div><div><br></div><div>Perhaps it's just a new game better suited to different players. As one of the founding members of the KLI, I'm having to reevaluate whether I want to play anymore.</div><div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Nov 28, 2011, at 1:58 PM, David Trimboli wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 11/28/2011 1:51 PM, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2011/11/26 Agnieszka Solska<<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>>:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">How do you make of the following line?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Don't speak to me of honor<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> quv HIja'chuqQo'<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (pp 156-157)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">In The Klingon Dictionary, {ja'chuq} is explicitly analyzed as "tell<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">each other". Marc Okrand once suggested that he would say more about<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">it on the MSN forum, but I don't think he got around to it before the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">forum vanished.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">My first (and extremely strong) reaction is to say the sentence is not<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">grammatically correct. Had I seen it in the draft of the text, I would<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">have had the same reaction.<br></blockquote><br>It hurts my brain. {-chuq} means the object is "each other," but the prefix means the object is "me," and the actual object is "honor." Ugh.<br><br>The only reason such an icky sentence appears is because {ja'chuq} is translated in the dictionary as "discuss." If that word weren't used, we wouldn't be having this trouble. It's all based on a poorly chosen English translation.<br><br>Finding a better translation would require the context around the sentence, but I don't have the book.<br><br>-- <br>SuStel<br><a href="http://www.trimboli.name/";>http://www.trimboli.name/</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>[email protected]<br>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>_______________________________________________
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