tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 22 08:35:29 2008

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Re: toH. qaD. qaDmey vIparHa'.

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

Doq wrote:
> Someone wrote in about Atlantean. Alex responded to that message with  
> something that sounded a lot like the complaint this list has endured  
> many times over the years: Okrand doesn't drop what he's doing and  
> serve the Klingon speaking community often enough to suit the  
> complainer, so  we should relieve Okrand of the responsibility of  
> maintaining the language.  We'll handle the vocabulary from here out,  
> thank you, Dr. Okrand. Otherwise "The Language  Will Die."
> 
> I didn't like that post very much. It didn't seem called for. I  
> responded, saying that this is a request that new people often make  
> over the years. I was not accusing Alex of being a newbie. I was  
> stating the undeniable fact that this request typically comes from  
> newbies. Obviously, I didn't state that very clearly. For that poor  
> wording, I apologize to everyone who misunderstood me. That error  
> seems to have become the trigger that set off this stupid flame fest.

When I read that, I heard, "Hey, you stupid nobody! How DARE you even 
think of doing that?!?" As you say, inventing more language themselves 
is commonly called for by people who recently joined the list. To 
respond in anger seems, to me, an overreaction.

> I was then lectured offline by someone else who was trying to defend  
> the guy who wrote in about Atlantean. Tossed into that complaint was  
> something to the effect of, "I often disagree with you..." and a few  
> other unnecessary, emotional tidbits suggesting "I don't like you very  
> much, but that's not why I'm writing you this time." When I pointed  
> out that I wasn't even addressing that person, the lecturer wrote back  
> a mild apology, not quite up to the task of smoothing out the feathers  
> he so enthusiastically ruffled. It didn't improve my mood.

Just in case Doq's final paragraph makes it seem this way, let me 
mention that this off-list message was not from me.

> Then came the remarkably pompous "Son" post, in which Alex mistakenly  
> had a huge emotional response to my calling him a newbie, which I  
> didn't do. He came about a half step short of saying, "I spoke Klingon  
> before Okrand invented it. For my casual amusement, I've learned every  
> language on Earth, real or imagined. When the publisher of TKD sought  
> an expert in the language, everyone on the planet pointed to me. I  
> taught Maltz how to speak Klingon." The whole post was in English and  
> I began to suspect that he was one of those linguists or language  
> hobbyist who knows a lot about a lot of languages, but may not be the  
> best judge of his actual level of expertise in any of them. So,  
> instead of writing back in English, I wrote in Klingon.

When I read your message, I saw a tirade. I thought Alex's indignation 
was quite justified.

> Predictably, his response was short and not altogether well written,  

Eh? For someone who, so far as I know, hasn't posted here before, his 
response was impressive.

> So now, I'm asked by SuStel to apologize to Alex, because, if I don't,  
> then, "The Language Will Die".

I asked you to do no such thing. I tried to tell you to relax, because 
jumping down a new list member's throat for wanting to invent new words 
won't encourage that new member to stay with the language. And we've 
established that this is exactly the sort of thing that new list members 
want to do. We need to calmly explain why inventing one's own words and 
grammar isn't a good idea in a way that convinces, not antagonizes.

As for "The Language Will Die," I added no such melodrama that you 
express with capital letters. I was making the point, expressed as the 
proverb {mataHmeH maSachnIS}, that if newbies always try to invent new 
words, and we antagonize anyone who tries to make new words, then we'll 
drive away all the newbies, and we'll never encourage anyone else to 
learn the language.

> Likely, the mystery has been solved as to who might have unsubscribed  
> me a couple months ago. Little matter. I'll do it, myself, this time.

I'm pretty sure this is a listserv bug, not malicious intent. I've been 
unsubscribed lots of times, even when I wasn't participating.

> In case the rest of you guys haven't picked up on this, SuStel doesn't  
> like me very much. I'd advise the rest of you to stay on his good  
> side. Otherwise, The Language Will Die.

Y'know, I didn't pick up on it either, 'cause it's not true. You're 
reading things I didn't say.

-- 
SuStel
Stardate 8557.5

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