tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jul 18 04:52:28 2008

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Re: Atlantean language

Doq ([email protected]) 

jISIv. jISIvqa'. jISIvtaH.

qajang net pIHba'. chay' qajangnIS?

mu'mey HoS Dajatlh DaneHchugh, qatlh pujwI' Hol Dalo'pu'? tlhIngan Hol  
laHlIjmo' bImIy DaneHba', 'ach Holvam Dalo'be'. wej bIDoj.

muD tuj rur mu'meylIj. vangDI' SuSna', lojchoH. lIjlu'.

qun DachenmoH DaneHchugh, SuvwI' Hol yIlo'.

'ach jIqaD'eghqangbe', qaqaDmeH DIb vIbajbe'. vaj mu'meylIj vImugh,  
'ej vIjang.

On Jul 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Fiat Knox wrote:

> --- Doq <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The simple truth is, Okrand has the expertise, the time
>> and the
>> dedication to come up with these languages, and you
>> don't. His work is
>> recognized by enough people to form groups based upon his
>> languages
>> and his authority to create and modify them. Your work is
>> not.
>
> Son, I was reading and speaking languages other than
> English before TKD came into print. I got a copy of the
> original Blue Book when the first imports arrived here in
> the UK in the Eighties, and before that, I amused myself
> with the pamphlet-sized Vulcan Dictionary I bought at a
> Trek con years before then.

<<puqloD, chenpa' tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom, Holmey vIjatlhlaH 'ej  
vIlaDlaH. vuSwIj 'oHbe' DIvI' Hol'e'. naDev (UKDaq) cha'maH ben pawDI'  
SuDbogh paqmey wa'DIch ngaSbogh tep'e', paqvam vISuqta'. qaSpa'  
wanI'vam, loQ jIQuch'eghmoHmeH, Trek ghomDaq vulqangan mu'ghomHom  
vIje'bogh vIlo'.>>

vavwI' SoHbe'ba'. SuvwI' ghaHpu' 'ej Hegh. latlh vIpoQbe', 'ej  
vIpoQchoHchugh, SoH vIwIvbe' 'e' vIlay'.

paqmey ngo' Daghajmo' qavuvnIS 'e' DapIHlaw'. Dalo'laH'a'? yItob,  
'eDjen.

> Before that, it amused me for many years to learn
> Esperanto, Latin, Portuguese, Dutch, Japanese, Swahili and
> a bunch of other languages, conlangs and natural. This
> youthful indulgence has proven immeasurably useful to me in
> the present.

<<qaSpa' wanI'vetlh, qaStaHvIS DISmey law', loQ jIQuch'eghmoHmeH,  
Esperanto, Latin, Portuguese, Dutch, Japanese, Swahili, latlhmey  
law' ('op nugh Holmey, 'op Holtej Holmey) je vIghojta'. jIQupDI'  
Holmeyvam vIghojmo', DaH lI' laHmeyvam.>>

Holmeyvam DajatlhlaHchu' 'e' Damaq. ngoDHey Datobbe'mo' qaHarmeH  
qavoqnIS. wa' Hol Dalo'laH 'e' vIchup: tlhIngan Hol. naDev. DaH.

> When Pocket Books began promoting the early White Book TKD
> in the UK in 1992, before the KLI came into being, they
> cast about among British Trekkers, looking for the one they
> considered "the Klingon language expert." Everyone pointed
> to me.

<<UKDaq, tera' DIS wa'SanID Hutvagh HutmaH cha', chISbogh mu'ghommey  
wa'DIch chenmoHDI' Pocket Books, chenpa' tlhIngan Hol yejHaD, British  
Trekkers tlhob Pocket Books. jatlh <tlhIngan Hol po'wI' yIngu'!> muwIv  
Hoch.>>

'ach tlhIngan Hol DajatlhlaHbej'a'? ghomDI' British Trekkers, bIQat  
'e' Datob neH.

DaH vImugh 'e' vImej. poH vIHutlh. Qu'mey vItoy'nIS. chaq jIchegh poH  
vISamDI'. chaq bIDoj. chaj bImIy neH. jISovbe'.

bIDoj DaneHchugh, DIvI' Hol (pujwI' Hol) Dalo' 'e' yImev. tlhIngan Hol  
Dalo'laH 'e' yItob, 'eDjen.

Doq

> I taught tlhIngan Hol at a Star Trek convention on 6 May
> 1991 in Birmingham, at an event scheduled on the events
> timetable. I also watched that flame flicker and die, some
> time later, at meetings of Star Trek fans across the
> country, when tlhIngan Hol - like Star Trek - became
> yesterday's fashion, lost among the run of TV shows like
> Heroes, BSG, Supernatural and Smallville.
>
> But every single potential Klingonist who comes to me
> asking about the language gets nothing but respect,
> encouragement and help. I suspect I have even got more than
> a few "newbies," to use your ill-used pejorative, to apply
> what they were learning about languages to other,
> Terrestrial, tongues. I think Marc Okrand would approve,
> though this is more to do with my desire to weaken the
> spectre of bigotry and encourage tolerance among the local
> Anglophones for others than in seeking approval from MO or,
> indeed, anyone.
>
> Oh. And Marc Okrand's not the only linguist in the world,
> nor even the best. You don't even need to be a linguist to
> invent a language that endures.
>
> More than a century ago, a Polish oculist - note, not a
> professional linguist, but a mere grinder of ophthalmic
> lenses for spectacles - invented a full conlang, Esperanto,
> which survives to this day. And it survives, because it's
> spoken by millions of people worldwide, who maintain the
> language, its words and grammar as gardeners and farmers
> maintain their allotments and smallholdings.
>
> It survives, because no one person holds the keys to the
> language; every Esperantist knows that they bear a legacy
> in that language, and a practical duty to encourage the
> growth of Esperanto wherever they live, rather than hoard
> the secrets of its grammar, syntax and vocabulary to
> itself.
>
>> You can't just step in and take over because, by your
>> reckoning,
>> Okrand isn't doing it the way you think he should, so by
>> self-
>> declaration, you can take over.
>
> I'm not trying to take over anything. I believe I was
> merely stepping in to stop you steamrollering yet another
> newbie and his dreams of a living Atlantean.
>
> Incidentally, as for Uremehir, I freelance for White Wolf,
> the gaming company behind that game which introduced the
> concept of that conlang. Personally, I'd love the
> opportunity to develop and support it for them. So far,
> nobody's dared come near it as yet. White Wolf simply never
> have the time.
>
>> I'm not convinced that the language will die without
>> his dedicated expansion of it at a pace that satisfies
>> some newbie who wants to take over. That prediction has
>> been made for over a decade. It hasn't happened yet.
>
> It'll go when nobody bothers to want to learn it any more,
> and the last Klingon speakers pass having failed to
> encourage others to want to take up learning it.
>
> More than ever, 22 or more years since the Blue Book
> emerged on the book market, it is incumbent upon
> Klingonists to encourage newcomers to learn, to err and to
> gain confidence in best practice in tlhIngan Hol. And to
> communicate more, rather than to condemn out of hand. "That
> which we learn to do, we learn by doing."
>
>
> Peace,
>
>
> Alex.
>
> "Oh, I love it when they /ask/ me to corrupt them ..." - Me, talking  
> to Nai, Mar 01 2008
>
> "You people and your quaint little categories." - Captain Jack  
> Harkness, Torchwood
>
> "We're grown ups now, and it's our turn to decide what that means."  
> - Randall Munroe, http://xkcd.com
>
> Conquer the Universe with me! See how at http://fiat-knox.livejournal.com
>
> We are now leaving the Kingdom of Star Trek and entering normal space.
>
>
>      __________________________________________________________
> Not happy with your email address?.
> Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses  
> available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html
>
>

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