tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 04 03:45:21 2007
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Re: Basic grammar question
This doesn't seem to have gone through. Let me try again.
David Trimboli wrote:
> Qang qu'wI' wrote:
>
>> I would be interested if you could cite specifically, but just as a matter
>> of interest. I'm not proposing that anything other than {maleng qorDu'wIj
>> jIH je} is the correct Klingon.
>
> It's hard, if not impossible, to prove a negative. Nowhere in the canon
> is there any example of conjoining a noun and a pronoun, but neither is
> there any situation in the canon where doing so would seem to be
> appropriate. My knowledge of the canon is, however, rusty; if anyone can
> cite an example of a noun-pronoun conjunction, or of anything that goes
> out of its way to avoid one, please post it.
>
> One potential rule against conjoining nouns and pronouns is on TKD p.
> 52: "Pronouns may be used as nouns, but only for emphasis or added
> clarity. They are not required." Using the first person pronoun in {jIH
> qorDu'wIj je} isn't done for emphasis or added clarity. There is thus no
> provision in the stated rules for conjoining nouns and pronouns.
>
> On the other hand, Such an interpretation would also invalidate
> sentences like {ghaHvo' yIt nuch} "The coward walked away from him." And
> pronouns are explicitly allowed to get {-vaD} on TKD p. 180.
>
> Don't forget the warning of TKD Section 2:
>
> It is not possible, in a brief guide such as this, to describe the
> grammar of Klingon completely. What follows is only a sketch or
> outline of Klingon grammar. Although a good many of the fine points
> are not covered, the sketch will allow the student of Klingon to
> figure out what a Klingon is saying and to respond in an
> intelligible, though somewhat brutish manner. Most Klingons will
> never know the difference.
>
> I believe that the possibility of a third person plural beyond {maH} was
> simply never considered and never examined. And since the canon has
> never needed it, we don't have any information one way or the other. It
> is, however, a very common device in personal discussions, something
> that the canon has very little of.
>
> Now, before you go taking this as evidence for your theoretical *{maleng
> qorDu'wIj jIH je}, answer this: according to your model, how would you
> translate "The captain gave me and the other officers medals"? Using our
> customary methods, I can think of two distinct ways (not counting
> variations with the prefix trick).
>
> SuStel
> Stardate 7919.8
>