tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 28 08:15:16 2004

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Re: TKD phrase: {-meH} clause

...Paul ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 [email protected] wrote:
> {Dochvetlh DIlmeH Huch 'ar DaneH}
> How much do you want for that?
> [lit.: How much money do you want in order to pay for that thing?]
> [TKD p.171] phrase #56

> Now I would say {Dochvetlh vIDIlmeH Huch 'ar DaneH}, adding {vI-} "I" as the
> explicit subject of {DIlmeH}.  Is context so strong in the paying scenario
> that this sort of explicitness is unnecessary?

I've noticed in a few places, the /-meH/ clause seems to be used without
any verb prefixes, and has been translated into more of a conceptual state
rather than an action state.

Looking through my recently-acquired copy of TKW, though, I find most of
the phrases using /-meH/ do actually have prefixes on them, and most of
those that don't have either an obvious, specific third-person subject, or
are actually using /-lu'/ to generalize.  The only one that sticks out as
not being so precise is this one:

tlhutlhmeH HIq ngeb qaq law' bIQ qaq puS
"Drinking fake ale is better than drinking water"
[lit. "For him/her/they to drink, fake ale is preferable to water."]

Given the other constructions, I would probably have tossed /-lu'/ in
there both of these examples -- /tlhutlhlu'meH/ and /DIllu'meH/.

One of the examples in TKD under "Purpose Clauses" specifically uses the
/lu-/ prefix as well.  I would probably chalk it up to error (or "Clipped
Klingon" :)

It's too early for me to think really straight, but I think I've seen
Okrand occasionally use verbs without prefixes and without /-lu'/ in a
manner that seems to indicate he almost wants to use it as a noun -- oh,
what's the term for when you make a noun out of a verb by adding -ing?
The TKW quote above really seems to fit that (or he again forgot to add
/-lu'/).

...Paul

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