tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 16 15:08:39 2004

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Re: ghogh HablI'wIj

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 


You've consistently misused {jatlh}.  It seems counter-intuitive, but when 
using {jatlh} to introduce a quotation, the quoted words are NOT the direct 
object of the verb.  You just say: {<<blah. blah.>> jIjatlh} or  {jIjatlh 
<<blah. blah.>>}  (The {jatlh} tag can come on either side of the quotation 
BTW.)  IOW do not use the object prefixes on {jatlh}; use the no-object 
prefixes.

Okrand discussed this (as well as "the prefix trick") in some detail on 
msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand (7/01/97) which you should read:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Marc Okrand" <...>
Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
Date: 29 Jun 1997
Subject: Re: Some quick questions...

Neal Schermerhorn wrote:
 > 1) Does qajatlh mean anything? Some feel this is poor grammar. I'm not
 > sure what to think. Can jatlh take an object other than a language?

The object of jatlh "speak" is that which is spoken.  Thus, it's OK to say
"speak a language," for example:

     tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon"

But it's also OK to say "speak an address, speak a lecture," for example:

     SoQ Dajatlh "you speak an address" or, more colloquially, "you
     deliver an address" or "you make a speech"

To say simply:

     jatlh "he/she speaks"

implies "he/she speaks it," where "it" is a language or a lecture or
whatever.

The indirect object of jatlh, when expressed, is the hearer/listener.
Thus:

     qama'pu'vaD tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon to the prisoners"

     qama'pu'vaD SoQ Dajatlh "you make a speech to the prisoners"

When the indirect object (in this case, the hearer) is first or second
person, the pronominal prefix which normally indicates first or second
person object may be used.  There are other examples of this sort of thing
with other verbs.  For example, someone undergoing the Rite of Ascension
says:

     tIqwIj Sa'angnIS "I must show you [plural] my heart"

The pronominal prefix in this phrase is Sa-, which means "I [do something
to] all of you" in such sentences as:

     Salegh "I see you [plural]"

but when there's already an object (in this case, tIqwIj "my heart"), the
"object" of the prefix is interpreted as the indirect object, so Sa- means
"I [do something to] it for you" or the like.

This, then, brings us back to your question.  Since the object of jatlh is
that which is spoken, and since "you" or "I" or "we" cannot be spoken (and
therefore cannot be the object of the verb), if the verb is used with a
pronominal prefix indicating a first- or second-person object, that first
or second person is the indirect object.

Which is a not very elegant way of saying that qajatlh means "I speak to
you" or, more literally, perhaps "I speak it to you," where "it" is a
language or a speech or whatever:

     qajatlh "I speak to you"

     Sajatlh "I speak to you [plural]"

     chojatlh "you speak to me"

     tlhIngan Hol qajatlh "I speak Klingon to you"

There's another wrinkle to this.  The verb jatlh can also be used when
giving direct quotations:

     tlhIngan jIH jatlh "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"

     jatlh tlhIngan jIH "he/she says, 'I am a Klingon'"

(With verbs of saying, such as jatlh, the phrase that is being said or
cited may come before or after the verb.)

If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating
"no object" is used:

     tlhIngan jIH jIjatlh "I say, 'I am a Klingon'"

     tlhIngan jIH bIjatlh "you say, 'I am a Klingon'"

There are instances where the pronominal prefix marks a big distinction in
meaning:

     tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh "you speak Klingon"

     tlhIngan Hol bIjatlh "you say, 'Klingon language'" [that is "you say
     the phrase 'Klingon language'"]

I realize that this answer to your "quick" question is probably too quick
itself.  It is not by any means a complete discussion of the several topics
mentioned and I may have phrased things not as clearly as they might be
phrased.  As a result, this answer may end up just raising other questions.
qay'be'.  We'll get to them as they come along.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, on to your text...

naHQun wrote:
> >ghogh HablI'wIjDaq <bangwI'> vIjatlh.
> >I speak "bangwI'" into my phone

... jIjatlh.

> >jatlh ghogh HablI'wIj <vavwI'.  rIlI'.>
> >My phone says "vavwI'. Calling."

Spelling:  {rI'lI'}.

> >munuQ.
> >It annoys me.

maj.

> ><qIl.> vIjatlh.
> >I say "cancel"

... jIjatlh.

> ><bangwI'> vIjatlhqa'.
> >I say "bangwI'" again.

... jIjatlhqa'.

> >jatlh: <bangwI'. rIlI'.>
> >It says "bangwI'. Calling."

rI'lI'

> >Qoy: <wI'>
> >It hears "wI'"

{Qoy} doesn't work like {jatlh}; it does take the object, so you have to 
move {wI'} to the object position:

   <wI'> Qoy.

> >Qoybe': <vav bang ghap>.
> >It does not hear "vav" or "bang"

Again:

   <vav bang ghap> Qoybe'.

> >qeylIS Hotlh ghogh HablI'wIj HaSta.
> >My phone projects Kahless on it's viewscreen

"My phone's viewscreen projects Kahless."

First, "on it's viewscreen" is a place stamp, so move it to the beginning:

   HaStaDaj qeylIS Hotlh ghogh HablI'wIj.
   "My phone projects Kahless on(to) it's viewscreen."

But... this is a bit tricky.  As I understand it, the {HaSta} "visual 
display (on monitor)" is what is being displayed on the {jIH} "monitor, 
viewing screen (device)":

   HaSta yIcha'
   Show the visual display! TKD

IOW {HaSta} is the intangible image you see, {jIH} is the device.  You can 
touch the screen, but not the image.

   qeylIS HaSta Hotlh ghogh HablI'wIj.
   "My phone projects Kahless's visual display."

which doesn't really sound right.  (I'm not sure you can modify {HaSta} 
with another noun like this as if it meant "image".)  Instead, use {jIH}:

   jIHDaj qeylIS Hotlh ghogh HablI'wIj.
   "My phone projects Kahless on(to) it's viewscreen."

Fortunately, {Hotlh} means "project, put on screen" all by itself.  E.g.:

   yIHotlh
   Put him on the screen! TKD

So you can say simply:

   qeylIS Hotlh ghogh HablI'wIj.
   "My phone puts Kahless on the screen."

IOW, the screen is implied.  (Where else could your video phone project the 
image?)

Another option is {cha'} "show, display (picture)":

   jIHDaj qeylIS cha' ghogh HablI'wIj.
   "My phone shows/displays Kahless on it's viewscreen."

or just

   qeylIS cha' ghogh HablI'wIj.
   "My phone shows Kahless."

> >rut muquvmoH.
> >sometimes it honors me

maj.

> >[it honors me by displaying Kahless, not by mishearing me].

muquvmoH ghogh HablI'wIj qeylIS cha'mo', muQoyHa'be'mo'.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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