tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 12 14:25:17 2004

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Re: taghwI' jIH

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

From: <[email protected]>
> > There are a lot of uses of {ja'} in canon, and not one of them provides
an
> > unambiguous demonstration of the correct object of the word.
> >
> > I am of the opinion that {ja'} was invented for Kruge's line in Star
Trek
> > III, "Report status!"  If this is the case, {ja'} could refer to
something
> > other than a person as its object (in this case, {Dotlh} "status"), and
> > whenever we see {ja'} in canon using a prefix that indicates a person as
the
> > object, what is really happening is that the prefix trick is rearing its
> > ambiguity-causing head.
>
> Can the prefix trick be used with {-'egh} and {-chuq}?  Some canon
examples:
>
> yIja''egh  tell yourself! (ja' tell)
> peja''egh tell yourselves!

There is no reason to think why the prefix trick can't apply to verbs with
{-'egh} and {-chuq}.

> ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla' The enemy commander wishes a truce (in
order) to confer.
>
> The last one seems especially telling because the indicated direct object
is third person, and
> third person indirect objects do not qualify for the prefix trick, so the
indicated direct object
> cannot be an indirect object disguised by the prefix trick.  {ja'chuq} can
only mean "They {ja'}
> each other"; it cannot mean "They {ja'} [something] to/for each other".

The problem here is that {-meH}seems to be used as a gerund when modifying a
noun.  It's unclear whether subjects and objects apply to such use.  With
{ja'chuqmeH rojHom}, the {ja'chuqmeH} may not actually have specific
subjects, just as {ghojmeH} in {ghojmeH taj} doesn't have a specific
subject.

However, {ja'chuq} is the strongest evidence that the object of {ja'} might
be the person spoken to.  It is pretty weak, and doesn't rule out alternate
subjects.  If someone says to me {lut vIja'}, I'm not going to complain.

SuStel
Stardate 4117.1

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