tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Dec 17 08:27:43 2003

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Re: Klingon WOTD: taH (v)

Scott Willis ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Marrington" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:25 AM
Subject: Re: Klingon WOTD: taH (v)

> ma'Sa:
> To the Beginning Grammarian: Does that even vaguely resemble anything
which
> makes sense?

LOL It's actually "Beginners' Grammarian", but "Beginning Grammarian" works
in my case, I suppose... }}: )

> ma'Sa:
> "Star Trek VI as canonical" wIlajba'chugh....
> "If we accept Star Trek VI as canon....

This is a tough one. I think this is a matter of missing words. (That's why
you used all the English, right?) As far as I know, we have no canon word
for "canon". I would probably go with a recast: Try saying {qarchugh *Hov
leng* jav...} "If Star Trek VI is accurate..."

(Please note that {Hov leng} "star travel, voyage, trip" is used often on
this list for "Star Trek", but is not canon.)

> ma'Sa:
> <<taH pagh taHbe'>> jatlh Hamlet.
> Hamlet says <<taH pagh taHbe'>>.

{maj} }}: )

Note that the direct quote {taH pagh taHbe'} is not the direct object of
{jatlh}.

{<<taH pagh taHbe'>> jatlh Hamlet} is actually two sentences:
"To be or not to be." Hamlet says.

So, it is equally valid switched around, too:

{jatlh Hamlet: <<taH pagh taHbe'>>}
"Hamlet speaks. 'To be or not to be'."

The only valid direct objects of {jatlh} are a {Hol} "language" ({tlhIngan
Hol}, {DIvI' Hol}, etc.) or a noun describing speech ({mu'} "word", {SoQ}
"speech, address", etc.)

> ma'Sa:
> "To be or not to be" mugh Dochvam 'e' lujatlh DIvI' nIHwI'pu'.
 > The Federation's thieves say that this translates as "To be or not to
be".

Couple of problems here:

{mugh} means "to translate", not "to translate as". For this situation, I
would use {'oS} "to represent".

{Doch} is a physical object. {Doch} does not have the versatility that the
word "it" has in English. We have other words to cover these uses: {ghu'}
"situation", {wanI'} "event, phenomenon", etc. In this case, I would use
{mu'tlhegh} "sentence", the noun describing the "antecedent" {taH pagh
taHbe'}.

The sentence  {'To be or not to be' mugh Dochvam} cannot be used as the
object of {jatlh} (See above). Try using {maq} "to proclaim".

Putting it all together:
{"To be or not  to be" 'oS mu'tlheghvam 'e' maq DIvI' nIHwI'pu'.}
"The Federation's thieves proclaim that {taH pagh taHbe'} represents 'To be
or not to be'."

> ma'Sa:
> vaj "to exist" mugh <<taH>>.
> Therefore, <<taH>> translates as "to exist".

Same problem with {mugh} (See above)

As for {taH} meaning "to exist", you're very close. {taH} actually means "to
continue, endure, go on". This is what Hamlet was really saying in the play.
(He was contemplating suicide in that soliloquy). So in a weird little
coincidence, the Klingon is closer to the intended meaning of the original
English than the original English itself! (Cool, huh?) }}: )

And now I think I see the problem: {taH} "to continue" and {taH} "to be at a
negative angle" are homophones: they sound the same. It is up to the
listener to determine the intended meaning of the verb from context:

{yav chol Duj. taH, 'ej tugh Saq.} can only mean:
"The ship approaches the ground. It is at a negative angle, and will soon
land."

Because "endure, go on" doesn't make sense in this context. There is no
reason to suspect that we're talking about the ship's continuation.

On the other hand, {tagha' rIn may'. taH Duj, 'ej batlh Suv beqDaj.} can
only mean:
"The battle is finally finished. The ship survives, and it's crew fought
honorably."

Here, "to be at a negative angle" doesn't make sense, because a battle is
mentioned, thereby calling into question the continued existence of the
ship. The orientation of the ship isn't spoken of at all.

I hope at least most of this made some sense, and I believe I've rambled
enough... }}: )

--ngabwI'
Beginners' Grammarian,
Klingon Language Institute
http://kli.org/
HovpoH 700925.0

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