tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Dec 10 19:30:17 2003
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Re: Some thoughts on vocabulary (was Re: Word for "random")
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I very much agree. Looking at this "issue" as someone who moved to an English
speaking country, I see the same things as you do with "koren" in Russian.
I believe, that what creates this effect is caused by the natural development
of the language. And for a language to naturally develop, it has to be
actively used. This is done well here. The one big problem is, that to get
this development, you really would have to speak it on a daily basis. Yes,
the speaking is the thing. That's where words can transform into others. If
there was a large enough community that would communicate in Klingon
exclusively it would be the best. (Kind of like you move to a country where
they speak Kingon. You have two choices 1) learn Klingon and be able to
exchange ideas 2) ignore the language and be lost for the rest of your
life :-) )
Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that this list and other things by
KLI are not enough, on the contrary, from what I hear they are very helpful
to Klingonists.
Ok, and example that just popped into my mind...
I'm sure everyone heard or used Google. A while ago, I noticed that many
people use google as a verb (ie. I googled for...) meaning to search. Now,
years from now, it may be that google will be long dead, but the word
"google" will still be around.
One thing that can accelerate this language development is the internet. Since
people from all over the world use it, and bring (both accidentally and
purposefully) their cultural differences out into the public, ALL the
languages (English, French, Spanish, Klingon...you name it) benefit from it.
Ok, I think I stop now, before my post makes no sense whatsoever.
Jeff.
On Wednesday 10 December 2003 17:02, [email protected] wrote:
> I sometimes think we are too literal (or maybe I mean, concrete) in our use
> of words. When I was studying Russian, I remember thinking, "Wow, you can
> tell that the Russian language is still really close to its agrarian
> past" because it had the word (for example) "koren'", which means "the
> root/basis of a situation" and also "plant root". I was completely
> oblivious to the same effects in English, where "wing" originally referred
> to the appendage of a bird, but could be equally applied to the lifting
> surface of an aircraft, or one section of a building. All the meanings
> derived from a single simple object, exactly as in Russian, but the
> association was clear to me in Russian because it was unfamiliar, and
> totally hidden from me in English. To me, the three "wings" might as
> well have been entirely different words.
>
> My point is that I think we do something similar in Klingon, that is, we
> want there to be different words for things, because if the words are
> the same, it feels as weird as "koren'" did to me: too transparent and
> hence too artificial. Consider the word {tut}. I always assumed from the
> beginning that it referred to an architectural feature. When someone a
> while back used it in the sense of a military formation, it jarred me.
> But then I thought, why does it have to be either/or? Could {tut}
> refer to the structural support of a building _and_ the military support
> of an attack group?
>
> In the case of {pat}, Maltz isn't the most introspective entity, so it's
> no real surprise we lack words for a whole range of abstract concepts.
> His vocabulary, especially in later years, has always tended to emphasize
> concrete nouns. To me, the existence of the word {pat} referring to
> physical systems strongly implies the existence of its reference to
> conceptual systems, and resistence to this idea may be due to the same
> sort of dissonance I felt when encountering "koren'" for the first time.
>
> Word-formation in different languages is a really fascinating topic, and
> they all go about it in different ways. It seems clear to me that one of
> the ways that Klingon expanded its vocabulary was by extending the meanings
> of simple words (as opposed to compounding, which seems to be a more recent
> process in Klingon). I refuse to believe that the various verbs that
> describe the movement of an aircraft can only be used in speaking of
> aircraft. I can't believe that the morpheme {pu'} (as in {pu'HIch})
> never meant anything other than "phaser"; a fantasy of mine is that we'll
> someday discover it's the old Klingon word for a lightning bolt. We
> generally have only the "modern", technical meanings of these words,
> which is understandable given their source, but I'm convinced the older
> associations remain.
>
> -- ter'eS
- --
Mankind invented the atomic bomb, but no mouse would ever construct a
mousetrap.
- Albert Einstein
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