tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Dec 10 09:46:44 2003

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

Re: Word for "random"

Teresh000 ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

In a message dated 12/9/2003 5:25:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
 
> ter'eS wrote:
> 
> >As well as I can recall, there is no actual word for "random",
> >as in "a list of random numbers".  I'm considering a phrase
> >using the word {pat}, for example {pat Hutlhbogh mI' tetlh'e'}.
> 
>   "a number list which lacks system"
> 
> Not sure if {pat} "system, grid" is the right word as it seems to refer to 
> something physical, not an intellectual abstract.
> 
>   Hongghor pat
>   impulse drive system KBoP
> 
>   Hub patmey
>   defense systems (ST5 notes)
>[...]
> 
> From these, it appears that {pat} refers to a set of devices working together.
> 
> Maybe you could do something with {ngaDHa'} "be unstable, be 
> unbalanced".  Cf. the phrase {Duj ngaDHa'} "irresponsible person, 
> undisciplined person":
> 
>   This expression means literally "unstable vessel, unbalanced vessel"
>   ... the verb {ngaD} ("be stable, balanced", here followed by the negative
>   suffix {-Ha'}) normally applies to a ship or a physical object, not to a
>   situation or a person. It would be inappropriate to refer to a person as
>   {ngaD} or {ngaDHa'} in a phrase such as {tera'ngan ngaDHa'} ("unstable
>   Terran"). A standard verb that is close in meaning is {ngIj} ("rowdy,
>   unruly"), as in {tera'ngan ngIj} ("rowdy Terran").  (KGT 150)
>[...]

{ngIj} is definitely a possibility, although using it to refer to
a random number might be too idiomatic. I also considered {nab Hutlhbogh},
except that the list does have a plan, which is to be randomly ordered.
I'm still strongly attracted to {pat}, though, despite Voragh's and
Quvar's examples, which refer only to objects, because I can't see
how Klingons can understand {pat} to refer to physical objects if they
don't first understand it as referring to abstract concepts.

My dictionary defines a "system" as a collection of objects that function
together in an orderly way, or a set of ideas or concepts that are related
in an orderly and logical way.  Looking at a few dictionaries I have, I
see that the Russian "sistema" and the Japanese "seido" have essentially
the same sets of meanings.  My conclusion is that we all use the word
"system" to refer to the physical objects only because it already refers
to the concept, and we just extend the meaning.  It looks likely to
me that Klingon has done the same thing, especially since we have canon
words whose meanings have been extended (such as {Sub}), so we know
it's something that Klingons do.  (Although not canonical, we have also
done it with words like {De'wI' mIw} for "computer program"). We know
that {pat} means "physical system"; it is almost inconceivable to me
that it does not also refer to a "conceptual system".

An ordered list is one that groups its elements in an orderly and logical
way, and could be said to be, or have, a system; a random list is one
whose elements are not grouped in an orderly way, that is, which lacks
a system.

 
> -- 
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons 


-- ter'eS

Back to archive top level