tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 18 11:47:47 2003

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Re: no matter what happens...

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 


>Am 17.08.2003 05:37:50, schrieb "Se'noj le'umaS" 
><[email protected]>:
> >A Ferengi would use any excuse they could to get out of fighting a Klingon.
> >  'ach 'oH SIStaH!
> >  'ach 'oH SISHa'taH!
> >  'ach 'oH bIrtaH!
> >  'ach 'oH tujtaH!

Quvar:
>The pronoun {'oH} is wrong there, you don't need it. The use of v#7 {-taH} 
>is not wrong, but it seems
>redundant, unless it's really a continuously ongoing condition.
>    [....]
>It's raining would simply be {SIS} "it rains" or {SIS muD} "the 
>weather/atmosphere rains".

Don't use {muD} either.  (Do you say "the weather/atmosphere rains" in 
German?)  Here is how {SIS} - and presumably the other weather verbs - 
works according to DloraH, who spoke with Okrand at a convention (May 1998):

   In a way everyone was correct with this one. It rained a few times
   during the weekend, so we were put into the situation to discuss it.
   {SIS}. {SISqu'}. {SIStaH}. {SISchoH}. All correct. {SISlu'}, although
   grammatically correct, he didn't particularly like... You can also
   give it an object and say things like the clouds rained down cats
   and dogs... or something like that; you get the idea. But when Marc
   and I went outside and drops of water were falling on us, he looked
   up and simply said "SIS".


>Hm. that makes me think of the following: since we know that it will stop 
>raining - even if we don't
>know when - some day, shouldn't we use v#7 {-lI'}??

{-lI'} doesn't mean that the action will eventually end at some (unknown) 
point in time - after all, ALL actions eventually end - but that there is a 
KNOWN goal or a DEFINITE stopping point.  What is the goal of rain?  Here's 
TKD on {-lI'}:

   This suffix is similar to {-taH} "continuous" in that it indicates
   that an activity is ongoing. Unlike {-taH}, however, {-lI'} implies
   that the activity has a known goal or a definite stopping point. In
   other words, it suggests that progress is being made toward that goal.
     {chollI'}   "it is getting closer."
   This word would be used for, i.e., a missile approaching a target,
   when it is known that the missile has been aimed at that target. If
   a missile is getting closer, but its intended destination is not
   known, {choltaH} (with {-taH} "continuous") would be more appropriate.
     {vIlI'lI'}  "I am transmitting (the data)."
   This word implies that data are in the process of being transmitted,
   but that there is a finite amount of data, so there will be a definite
   end to the transmission. ... The suffix {-taH} "continuous" can be
   used whether there is a known goal or not. {-lI'}, on the other hand,
   can be used only when there is an implied goal. It is possible to
   consider {-lI'} a continuous counterpart of {-ta'}, and {-taH} a
   continuous counterpart of {-pu'}. (TKD 42f)

In other words, if it doesn't make sense to use {-ta'} ("used when an 
activity was deliberately undertaken, the implication being that someone 
set out to do something and in fact did it" (TKD 43) - don't use {-lI'} 
either.

{SISpu'} "it has rained") makes sense, but not *{SISta'}.  {SIStaH} "it 
rains continuously, it's still raining" makes sense, but not *{SISlI'}... 
unless, of course, that you can control the weather - which might be 
possible in the future! (g>  (E.g. "Today in the First City, government 
meteorologists have scheduled rain this morning for three hours, ending at 
noon.")



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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