tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 07 11:42:22 2003

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re: not rIn

[I guess this one slipped by the BG, I'll take a stab.]

Christoph wrote:

>net ngeHpu', vIloy. -- It was sent, I guess.

"One has sent that (previous topic), I guess it."

{net} and {'e'} never refer to objects, but rather to the previous sentence 
as a whole.  I imagine you were trying for:

   ?ngeHpu' net vIloy
    I guess that someone has sent it.

First problem:  "When the verb of the second sentence has a third-person 
subject (that is, the pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is 
'one' or 'someone', rather than 'he', 'she', 'it', or 'they', {net} is used 
instead of {'e'}" (TKD 65f.).  In this case, since the subject of your 2nd 
sentence is I, use {'e'}:

   ngeHpu' 'e' vIloy
   I guess that he/she has sent it. ("He/she has sent it. I guess that.")

Second problem:  Who's the subject of your 1st sentence?  Is there one, in 
fact?  If you want a vague passive, use {-lu'}:

   ngeHlu'pu'
   Someone has sent it. It has been sent.

Putting this together:

   ngeHlu'pu' 'e' vIloy
   I guess that someone has sent it.  I guess that it has been sent.

or even

   ngeHpu' vay' 'e' vIloy
   I guess that someone (specific) has sent it.  (see below)

BTW instead of a SAO you could have used the Type 6 suffix {-law'} "it 
seems (to be), apparently, seemingly, I think that, I suspect that":

   ngeHlu'law'pu'
   I think/suspect that someone has sent it. I think/suspect that it's been 
sent.

(Note the order of suffixes: Type 5, 6, 7.)

   ngeHlaw'pu' vay'
   I think/suspect that someone (specific) has sent it.

>qonpu'lu' vay'?  -- Did someone record it?
>
>(Is the '' vay' '' superfluous there?)

Not merely superfluous, it's ungrammatical.  {-lu'} is used "to indicate 
that the subject is unknown, indefinite, and/or general. Since the subject 
is always the same (that is, IT IS ALWAYS UNSTATED) ..." (TKD 38, emphasis 
added).  So you can say either

   qonlu'pu'
   Someone (vague) has recorded it.  It has been recorded.

(Note the order of suffixes: {-lu'} is Type 5, {-pu'} is Type 7.)

   qonpu' vay'
   Someone (specific) has recorded it.

>(BTW: how could I add '' 'a' '' to the second sentence?)

You add the Type 9 suffix {-'a'} at the end of the verb:

   qonlu'pu''a'
   Has someone (vague) recorded it?  Has it been recorded?

(And again, note the order of suffixes: Types 5, 7, 9.)

   qonpu''a' vay'
   Has someone (specific) recorded it?  Did someone record it?




-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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