tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Oct 30 08:52:03 1998
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RE: jab
SIHwI':
: I can imagine a Klingon doing the same thing, pointing to the
: waiter/waitress, and yelling <HIjab!!!>
pagh:
: maj. In Conversational Klingon, Okrand tells us a common way to get the
: attention of a Klingon waiter is to yell <jabwI'!>. At many points in the
: meal, <HIjab!> would be perfectly appropriate. Of course, if you are
: speaking for your dining companions as well, it should be <ghojab!>.
ghunchu'wI':
: Since the object of {jab} is supposed to be food, I get a really odd
: image when I see {HIjab}. Perhaps a dish of qagh might say {ghojab},
: but I think a group of diners should say {yIjab}.
pagh:
: I think of this as a simple application of the indirect object prefix
: trick, and it seems quite natural to me.
For those who missed it, Okrand explained the "trick" on the Expert Forum
(6/97):
Since the object of {jatlh} is that which is spoken, and since "you"
or "I" or "we" cannot be spoken (and therefore cannot be the object
of the verb), if the verb is used with a pronominal prefix indicating
a first- or second-person object, that first or second person is the
indirect object. Which is a not very elegant way of saying that
{qajatlh} means "I speak to you" or, more literally, perhaps "I speak
it to you", where "it" is a language or a speech or whatever.
A good example of this trick is:
ghIchwIj DabochmoHchugh ghIchlIj qanob.
If you shine my nose, I will give you your nose. PK
N.B. {ghIchlIj qanob} "I will give you your nose", *not* {SoHvaD ghIchlIj
vInob}, although the latter is also perfectly grammatical.
I agree with pagh that the imperative prefix {HI-} "you/you (pl.) [do
something
to] me!" *sometimes* behaves this way as well. Here are some examples where
the "object" of {HI-} seems to be what is (in English) the indirect object:
HIQoymoH
Let me hear (something). TKD
Note "something" is the direct object, "me" the indirect object.
cha'puj vIngevmeH chaw' HInobneS
Give me a permit to sell dilithium, your Honor. PK
ro'qegh'Iwchab HInob
Give me the rokeg blood pie. PK
vaghSaD DeQ HInob!
Give me 5,000 credits! PK
Note that here {HInob} does not mean "give me (to someone else)" but "give
(something) to me".
HI'ang
Show me! KGT
qablIj HI'ang
Show me your face! [a challenge to a duel] KGT
rolIj HI'ang
Show me your torso! KGT
ro'lIj HI'ang
Show me your fist! KGT
Here {HI'ang} does not mean "show me (to someone else)" but "show (something)
to me".
cha' HIvje' HIqem
Bring two glasses! PK
I'm not 100% certain about this one, but if I heard it correctly, this
would be
"Bring me two glasses". (The line may also be {cha' HIvje' yIqem!}, so I'll
need to listen carefully to it again this weekend, and try not to hear what I
expect to hear.)
Of course, {HI-} can also refer to the English direct object:
HIHoH
Kill me! KGT
HIHoHvIpQo'
don't be afraid to kill me! TKD
HIghoS
Come here! TKD
(literally "Approach me!")
qaja'pu' HIqaghQo' = HIqaghQo' qaja'pu'
I told you not to interrupt me.
I told you, "Don't interrupt me!"
"Don't interrupt me!" I told you. TKD
HIjol
Beam me aboard! Beam me up! TKD
ghobe', HIboQ!
No, help me! CK
HItlhej!
Come with me! PK
(literally, "Accompany me!")
tach vI'el, HItlhej
Let's go to the pub. (RT book)
HIHotQo'!
Don't touch me! CK
HIchop, bang
Give us a kiss, love. (RT book)
(literally, "Bite me!")
HItojQo'
Don't deceive me. (STC "Klingon Lesson")
HItlhochQo'
Don't contradict me. (STC "Klingon Lesson")
The confusion, I think, is in our anglocentric use of the term "object". One
basic definition is "the beneficiary of the action of a verb". As such, it
seems to me that objects of Klingon verbs are somewhat broader than objects an
English verbs, and cannot be rigidly segregated into "direct objects" and
"indirect objects", which are ideas taken from English grammar, not Klingon.
We do not know the Klingon word for a grammatical object, or even if Klingon
grammarians have a word for it at all. But, the nature of Klingon objects
is a
*very* old discussion on this list and won't be settled here.
To return to SIHwI's suggestion, I think it is a good one. {HIjab!} would
mean
"Serve me (something)!" on the model of {HI'ang} "Show me (something)" or
{HInob} "Give me (something)!" If a waiter heard ghunchu'wI's counter
proposal
{yIjab!} "Serve (it)!", I'd imagine his first reaction would be, "Serve
what?"
If you wanted to order something specific - gagh for example - you have could
say either:
(1) qagh HIjab! "Serve me (some) gagh!"
or
(2) jIHvaD qagh yIjab! "Serve the gagh to me!"
Perhaps the difference is in the stylistic register, or level, of speech with
(1) being more informal or colloquial, and (2) being more formal or analytic,
possibly reserved for official written Klingon. Note the difference in my
English translations. Or maybe the difference is simply one of context: You
might say (1) when you sit down at the table and announce to the {jabwI'} that
you have a taste for gagh, and (2) when the {jabwI'} brings several dishes
over
to a group of diners and asks, "Who gets the gagh?"
It's time for lunch... I'm getting hungry.
_________________________________________________________________________
Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars Poetica)