tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon May 11 09:36:27 1998

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Re: -ghach (oh no)

: qelayn wrote:
: }I don't know why people have such a problem using -ghach. I went from
: }first principles (naDHa'ghach) and worked out that it means...
: }  The act of <verb>ing - <verb>ghach
: }This works for any verb that makes sense in this context.
: }  eg. naDHa'ghach - The act of discommending (a discommendation)
: 
: The problem may predate you, qelayn.  Depending on when you came in, there
: was no <-ghach>, then there was rampant <-ghach> use to make a noun out of
: anything, coupled with gradually increasing arguments about whether we could
: do this, and then there was the explanation from Okrand about avoiding bare
: verbs. The suffix <-ghach> is mainly a problem when newcomers to the
: language try to use it to continue writing in a noun-dependent way, instead
: of switching to Klingon.  That we haven't quite got it yet was brought home
: to me when someone asked another BG and me for help translating a motto
: including the word "value."  We *both* balked at {lo'laHghach} for "value"
: until it was pointed out that that was the first example from TKD!
: Admittedly, {lo'laH} is a weird one, because it changes meaning more than
: average when it gets that first suffix.
: 
: And, it's got to be said, while I agree  it seems that the nominalization of
: a process is what's happening, that *isn't* what Okrand has said.
: 
: Qov     [email protected]

What Okrand has said:

"In Klingon, there are many instances of nouns and verbs being identical in
form... It is not known if all verbs can be used as nouns, but it is known
that verbs ending in suffixes (such as {-Ha'} `undo' in {lobHa'} `disobey')
can never be nouns. The Type 9 suffix {-ghach}, however, can be attached to
such verbs in order to form nouns." (TKD p.176) 

See also the extended interview with Marc Okrand in HolQeD 3.3 on {-ghach}.

N.B. {-ghach} "can be attached to such verbs [i.e. "verbs ending in
suffixes"] in order to form nouns".  The only Okrandian examples to date are:

  lo'laHghach       "value" TKD
  lo'laHbe'ghach    "worthlessness TKD
  naDHa'ghach       "discommendation" TKD
  naDqa'ghach       "re-commendation" TKD
  quvHa'ghach       "dishonor" TKW 

... all <verb>+<suffix>+<ghach>.  In other words, although all of fine
points of {-ghach} are not yet understood, one thing we do know is that you
don't use it on bare verbs.  If you do, Klingons consider such odd forms to
be "highly marked" -- sounding very queer but probably understandable -- as
Okrand put it in his HolQeD interview.

Voragh

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