tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 28 20:29:17 1998
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Re: List for beginners???
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: List for beginners???
- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:13 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
- Priority: NORMAL
Pardon me as I add myself to the growing list of responders to
this message.
On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:13:52 -0700 (PDT) David Baxter
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but when I first subscribed to
> this list, it was a list for beginners.
Well, you are wrong, so I will correct you. You asked for it.
Just think about what it would be like if this list were only
for beginners. You'd have only two kinds of people here: Those
who are beginners and those whose egos are hungry enough to keep
working with beginners without ever needing to actually use the
language among peers.
What we have here is a community of Klingon speakers. Beginners
are welcomed and we came up with the institution of the BG to
provide specific support for them. Meanwhile, if you keep
working at it, you will eventually stop being a beginner, and at
that point, you might appreciate that there is still a reason
for you to be here. If we were only for beginners, when you
finally caught on to the language, you'd have to either leave,
or spend all your time teaching.
There's simply more to it than that.
> Now I am finding that the majority
> of messages are written by people who appear to be quite fluent in Klingon.
You don't do statistics very well. There are experienced
Klingonists who have left this list because of the majority
volume of messages with KLBC headers, or messages "yammering"
ABOUT Klingon without actually using it. At all levels, for this
community to continue to thrive, we need to support each other.
Advanced speakers need to give a place to the beginners, as we
have with KLBC. Meanwhile, beginners need to have patience with
the experienced speakers as well. Otherwise, when YOU become an
experienced speaker, perhaps YOU won't be so welcome and people
will be asking YOU not to send messages they can't read easily.
Give me a break.
> For people like me, who are looking to learn a new language, this is too
> confusing. It is like putting a Japanese person in the heart of Paris and
> telling him to get on with his life.
Hardly. bIlachqu'. The messages you get here in a day do not
come close to the conversation you'd hear in a day in Paris.
Also, all you have to do is put KLBC on your message and you get
personal support.
Just delete the messages you can't handle, or save them for a
future day when you can. You should be happy to be able to
listen in to clearly written Klingon at advanced levels whenever
you like.
Nothing advanced my skills so swiftly as the month Krankor
stopped posting in English and used only Klingon WHILE STILL
ACTING AS LIST GRAMMARIAN. He asked me to translate everything
he wrote, so the list got to see his Klingon post, then my
English translation. I really had to work to keep up with his
messages, but that work resulted in most of the skill I have now
with the langauge.
I'm feeling like I need to work much more. My trip to Denmark
and its preparations really distracted me from my Klingon.
> I have seriously considered unsubscribing from this list, and I know other
> people have unsubbed, also because of the complexity of the language now it
> too great.
yIvIngQo'! I have to deal with your posts. So deal with mine.
Grow up. I welcome your contributions. Why can't you welcome
mine? What kind of Klingon ARE you, ANYway?
> Please bring the list back to what it used to be... a help place for
> beginners, and a place where beginners can share new ideas and learn the
> Klingon language.
If this list ever ceases to be a place for beginners where
beginners can share new ideas and learn the Klingon language, it
will be because the beginners were not willing to get off their
duffs and contribute toward creating that environment for
themselves. The BG will do a lot for you, but it is your
contribution that really builds the environment that will help
you learn. Don't whine, insisting that you need to be spoon fed,
and then whine because you think the spoon is too big for your
tender little mouth.
This community has room for people at different levels and they
all need to feel welcome here. If you can't handle deleting
messages above your level, why should I be happier to delete
messages below mine? Why should this list belong to you and not
to me?
I personally believe it belongs to both of us, and to everybody
else, including those below you and above me and everyone in
between. Let's not separate into competing camps. Let's share
the wealth of our variety.
> Qapla'
>
> David Baxter
> [email protected]
How appropriate.
charghwI'