tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 14 08:48:32 1998
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Re: QoghIj qaD
On Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Alan Anderson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> ja' Qov:
> >I don't think it's ungramatical, but that's because I see it as {maba'
> >DaneH} with a {nuqDaq} in its proper position to make the statement
> >into a question.
>
> Are you grouping it as {nuqDaq (maba' DaneH)) or ((nuqDaq maba') DaneH)?
> I don't think the first one makes a lot of sense, and the second one
> is pretty clearly a Sentence-As-Object pattern where the object is a
> question.
Well, I could see the first example as a weird kind of "Where
are you when you want us to sit?" Meanwhile, if we consider
there to be an invisible {'e'} in there, it would be at least as
accurate to say, {maba' nuqDaq DaneH?} Is that weird enough for
you? And the second example is QAO, which I still don't like,
and every indication is that it is not valid.
I think it is simply the case that we have stumbled upon an
example of something that is simple to say in English and less
simple to say in Klingon. There are certainly examples that go
the other way, so I'm content to admit that this happens in
Klingon.
maba' DaneH. Daq yI'agh.
> >Coming in to the middle of this, I was baffled as to the intended
> >meaning. {nuq vIje' vIneH?} */I want what do I feed?/ */I want what
> >will I buy?/ In comparison to ?/nuqDaq maba' DaneH/ it looks like
> >"what do I want to feed/buy" but that doesn't make much sense either.
>
> "I want to buy what?"
Right. You are Jewish. Only a Jew or someone speaking with a
Jewish accent can naturally say, "This is a question?" (<<:)>
I can't say, "I want to buy what?" without a Jewish accent.
Meanwhile, if we drop the whole "want" thing, this perfectly
fits the way Klingon works:
nuq vIje'? "I buy what?" "What do I buy?"
Meanwhile, this really is a perverse question. Why would a
Klingon ask someone ELSE what the Klingon wants to buy? You
might say the Klingon is asking himself, but I'm not sure that
is something that Klingons do in terms of language.
So, let's dodge this and change it to "What do you want to buy?"
I look at this and consider the Klingon distain for bickering on
price and the Klingon impatience with window shoppers.
I think the way a Klingon asks, "What do you want to buy?" is:
{bIje'be'chugh vaj bIHegh!}
So, Okrand has already answered this one.
> >I guess the question is, can we group (nuq (vIje' vIneH)) instead of
> >((nuq vIje') vIneH)? I don't think so.
Well, I don't think you can apply one direct object to two
verbs, if that is what you are wondering. Meanwhile, since
Okrand did say at least once that he didn't think questions
worked as direct objects in SAO, until he gives us this
exception, I don't think this is a grammatically defendable
sentence.
> I'm treating it as the latter. Yes, it's a question-as-object, but
> it's one that follows the rules for the use of interrogatives.
Well, it does so no more than any other QAO. The real object
once again is not the question, but the answer to the question.
I still think the object of the second verb is the answer to the
question and not the question itself, and I still think that
ignores the limits of SAO. I don't think it works.
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
>
charghwI'