tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 24 22:24:20 1998

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Re: KLBC Poetry (the child is happy)



At 20:04 98-01-22 -0800, edy wrote:

}>>I would like to speculate this sentence a bit more before 
}>>become glad with it. Surely I'll say lot of "bullshits" here
}>>but I ask you a bit of your patience. Please, don't throw
}>>stone at me.
}>
}>HelIj botlhDaq naghmey vIlanbe'. :)
}
}    :-)))  
}
}I prefer the stone in that way than this stone in my shoes!!!
}tlhIngan HolDaq mu'tlheghvam vImughqang 'ach tujqu'choH nachwIj  

I have to wrinkle my nose at the use of {-Daq} to mean "into a language."
Even metaphorically, that's not a physical location.
Perhaps: {mu'tlheghvam vImughmeH tlhIngan Hol vIlo'qang ...}

}(I am willing to translate this sentence into klingon, 
}but my head is overheating)  :-))

jIHagh. 

}>>1. The child has killed the bug (ghew HoHpu' puq)
}>>2. The child is happy (Quch puq)
}
}>>If I say: (ghew HoHpu'bogh puq'e' Quch), one could 
}>>say: "You cannot put the Topic 'e' in the first noun .."
}>>Yes, I know it, but the topic 'e' here refers the previous 
}>>sentence "ghew HoHpu'bogh" and not the "puq Quch". 
}>
}>Edy, I think you are confusing nouns with verbs.  {Quch} is a verb. 
}>{puq} is a noun.
}
}    Absolutely not. I know perfectly that Quch is 
}be happy (v) and and puq is child (n).  I just wanted to 
}speculate a bit more. I would like to be clearer in 
}this point, but certanly I'm causing you a big confusion. 
}
}>> so, it could mean: "is happy the child who has killed the bug" 
}>
}>"is happy the child who has killed the bug"  is NOT a grammatical 
}>English sentence, but it perfectly represents the error in your 
}>Klingon sentence.  You have the subject and verb out of order.
}
}    Yes. I know it. Neither in portuguese that 
}construction is correct.    **Thus**  :-))  my 
}speculation is right!

I still don't understand what you were doing, but if you were predicting it
was wrong and it was and that makes you happy, then yIHem.

}>I believe I see what you are thinking, though. Let me explain. 
}
}    [..]
}
}>killed the bug" OR "the bug which the child has killed" (ambiguous) 
}
}    I would like to discuss this topic later.
}
}>Resolve the ambiguity with the {-'e'} topic marker on the subject of 
}
}    I know it and I did it in the sentence below.

Yes, I was explaining that step by step for the benefit of other people who
could learn from what you were doing.  I try to make explainations useful
for more than one person.

}>{Quch ghew HoHpu'bogh puq'e'} - "The child who has killed the bug is >happy."
}>
}>Yes, the word {Quch} is closer to the word {ghew} than the word 
}>{puq}, but that's ok.  It is perfectly clear that it is the child 
}>that is happy.  The whole relative clause is the subject of the verb >{Quch}.
}
}    Ahhh .. This is the point. If the subject has the
}topic 'e' suffix, the it refers to the previous 
}sentence (in this case). 

yay!  I hoped that was the point you needed.

}>>Quch puq'e' HoHpu'bogh ghew ? The child whom the bug 
}>>has killed is happy
}>
}>Right.
}
}    I was right here, but I didn't see it in the
}sentece above .. Qu'vatlh!!!
}Now this is clear for me.
}
}
}>>but again, it could mean
}>>"The child is happy whom the bug has killed"
}>
}>This isn't a valid sentence in English and I can't think of a valid 
}>sentence that means anything different from the first one.
}
}    Once again the topic 'e' makes the difference.
}
}>The sentence says that 1. a child has killed a bug and 2. that 
}>child is happy.  Pretty much any sentence in any language that 
}>expresses exactly that is a valid translation.  
}
}The sentence is not valid in portuguese too. But 
}I wanted to see all the possible variations and
}understand the right one. 

Fair enough.
    
}>> If I use the Adverb, it could become easier:
}>> Now, the child which has killed the bug is happy
}>>
}>>The 2 sentences: 
}>
}>>1. The child has killed the bug (ghew HoHpu' puq)
}>>2. Now, the child is happy (DaH Quch puq)
}>>
}>>At my point of view, "the child is happy **now**" and not
}>>"the child has killed the bug **now**"
}>
}>Right.  That's exactly why I moved the adverb in sentence A.
}
}DaH Quch ghew HoHpu'bogh puq'e'
} 
}(Now, the child who has killed the bug is happy)
}
}That's it?

HIja'! majQa'.  ghojmeH mIwlIj vIyajbe' 'ach Daghojta'mo' jIQuch.

}>both of us because we have to communicate through 
}>a language barrier even when we are using 
}>English.  Sometimes I don't know if you have a 
}
}     Although my "bridge" for klingon is the 
}English language, I can understand most of things.
}Of course I'm not skilled in english, but I can
}understand the most of things.

jIbel. rut qajangtaHvIS jIyep 'ach rut jIyepHa'.  qamISmoH vIneHbe'.

}    For me, I learn best with the exemples. I'm
}not sure who (voragh pagh charghwI') gave me

That would be {Voragh charghwI' ghap}.  When you use "or" to join nouns the
word is {ghap} and it goes after all the nouns.

}lot of useful exemples of using -pu' and -ta'
}As I said, I wrote lot of sentences in order
}to see their meaning. I only forgot that the
}one was the subject of the other. :-((

A good exercise.  chaq vIyajchoH.

}>I wish I could translate this into Portuguese 
}>because I think it would have the same problem 
}>and then you would be able to see it.  Either 
}
}    It was an honor, but don't matter. The
}portuguese verbal suffixes are terrible.

jImon.  wot mojaqmeylIj mIgh vIghoj vIneHbe'!

}>that or Portuguese does 
}>something with relative clauses that English 
}>and Klingon simply don't.
}
}    No. They are quite the same. The problem
}is the ghojwI''e' not the languages.

qaybe' ghojwI''e'.  qay' yajchuqghachmaj neH.

}    Thanks a lot. So, I will only ask you to give 
}me more and more exemples. I know you are good in 
}this job. Seeing the exemples I can compare them 
}each other and understand their use.

I'll remember that.

But now you have to translate ...
A stone in the way is preferable to a stone in my shoe.

:)

Qov     [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian                 



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