tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jan 18 18:25:25 1998
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Re: Unofficial words (Was: Re puqpu')
ja' peHruS:
>It is obvious that ghunchu'wI' and I understand English differently, let alone
>tlhIngan Hol. In order to clear up my desires regarding more words in
>Klingon, I will start using some of my wish-list in sentences.
I'd be happier if you just started using Klingon sentences, though. I'm
convinced you'd find that a substantial chunk of your wish list would go
away.
>be curved (sv) = SIH. TKD gives "bend". Voragh, please provide canon uses
>of {SIH}. I have thought this a transitive verb, not a stative verb. I would
>have used {SIH} for {naQvam SIHlaH je puq}. While it appears that ghunchu'wI'
>might say {SIH He} and {naQvam SIHmoHlaH je puq}.
>
>This means I would never have used {SIHHa'} as a stative verb either.
Okay, so where I say {SIH He} you might substitute {He SIHlu'}. We're not
going to arrive at the correct interpretation of {SIH} by debating it.
>molecule = Hapvam mach law' Hoch mach puS Seems to me more like the
>meaning of the Greek word "atom". Molecules may be quite complex structures
>of atoms.
I chose my words quite deliberately. A molecule of matter is the smallest
piece of it that has the chemical properties of that matter. If I wanted to
talk about the ancient Greek "atomos", I'd say {Hapvam chavlu'be'}.
>Besides, in the 23rd century we shall have use of many smaller
>particles than molecules and atoms, viz. photons and waves.
I think you should stick to topics other than physics. :-) A photon's "size"
is a bit tricky to characterize, but can easily be quite a bit larger than a
hydrogen atom. And a wave is absolutely not a particle -- the two terms are
mutually exclusive!
>adhere = Hum TKD gives "be sticky". I cannot force this to mean "sticks
>to".
Weren't you going to give example sentences? I can't translate to your
satisfaction without knowing your context.
>saw = peghwI' I don't know what you are doing here. I want to saw down a
>tree. I suppose I could use a knife. It would take a while.
What I'm doing here is saying that a saw is something which cuts.
>I probably
>would use an {'obmaQ}. Perhaps Klingons never developed a saw. But, just
>maybe Klingons do have other "serrated" blades.
KGT p.61: "The {qutluch}, or /kut'luch/ in its usual Federation Standard
spelling, is a knife associated with Klingon assassins. It has a serrated
blade ({Ho' 'etlh} [literally, "tooth blade"]), so it is particularly lethal."
>be slippery = char Slimy things may be slippery, but I don't agree that
>the same word {char} can cover both concepts.
What concept are you trying to express? Not the word, the *concept*.
>corner = Dop jej Sharp side?????? I don't like this one, either. No, I
>would like a word for "corner".
What kind of "corner"? The corner of a room? The corner of a piece of paper?
The corner of Hollywood and Vine?
>pressure (n) = yuv, 'uy These are both verbs: "push", and "press down".
>How do I say "vapor pressure" or "blood pressure"?
Pressure is force per unit area. Force has the same units as weight. So
you could say that a one-'uj circle of blood has a certain weight.
>be narrow = lang; be broad/wide = langHa' Sorry, TKD gives "be thin". I
>can use {lang} for "be slender" referring to a person but not for "be narrow".
>If the paper is thin, or if the metal is thin, okay; but, "narrow" is a
>different concept.
Not in my dictionary. Narrow means having little width. So does thin.
>roll (v) = DIng, DIngmoH TKD gives "spin". What do we do about "The
>{qa'vaQ} rolls along the ground." or "The children roll the stone down the
>slope."?
What do "we" do? "We" say {yavDaq vIHtaHvIS DIng qa'vaQ} or {HuDDaq nagh
lughIrmoHmeH puqpu' luDIngmoH}.
>surface of other than planet (n) = HeH, veH, Hur Edge??? Boundary???
>Outside??? I would prefer {yub} over these. I think of {Hur} as an area off
>the surface, outside the object.
Oh, were you thinking of the surface of a fruit? Like I said when I started,
I probably won't come up with things that match what you had in mind.
>pulse (n) = tInchoHtaH 'ej machchoHtaH I don't think this verb
>conglomeration covers the idea of "blood pulse" very well.
If you want to talk about how many times the heart beats per second, then go
right ahead. I'm sure everyone would understand you just fine.
>interval = poH Fine, if we are discussing time only. We need to address
>an interval of space. Often one word in the mother tongue translates to many
>in a target language.
An "interval of space" -- you mean a distance?
>cast, mould (v) = Hew chenmoH Again, fine, if we are discussing only
>statues. I would like to cast a photon ray tube. I would like to mould a
>replacement panel for the breach in the hull.
So just {chenmoH}. Is the means of fabrication all that important? (And
whatever is a "photon ray tube"?)
>overhang (v) = qoj Dung Okay for the noun, but I am trying to say, for
>example, "The ledge overhangs (hangs out over) the lake."
So you say, for example, {ngeng DungDaq HuS qoj}. I don't see a problem.
>be aslant = taH Fine, for a negative angle only. How can I express "The
>path slants/slopes."?
Okay, I'll hand you the answer. I was *really* hoping you'd figure it out
yourself, but here it is: {SaSbe'}.
>Or, "The line segment is aslant in respect to the axis."?
{Donbe'}
>lining = qoD qoD = inside area (KGT). I don't think that adequately
>covers the idea of a lining, a covering just inside the hull, shell, skin,
>pelt, etc.
If you want to get more specific, fine. {qoD DIrHey} or something.
>current = vIttaHbogh bIQ Could I use vIttaHbogh 'ul, too?
*shrug* Sure, but don't take my word for it. *Use* it where it makes sense!
>root (n) = 'oQqar I think this refers only to a sweet-potato-like tuber,
>not all roots. An ocarina is called a sweet potato in ebonics, thus the pun.
If it were only a tuber, I'd expect the definition in KGT to lack the word
"root". Page 88 makes it clear that {'oQqar} refers to a root or tuber.
Perhaps it only refers to roots or tubers that are eaten, but that's not
obvious.
>I have a feeling there is a heretofore unrevealed word for "root", and another
>for "seed".
For "seed", try {qurgh}. Again, see the bottom of KGT page 88.
>traverse, cross over (v) = vegh According to discussion after our having
>received {vegh} at the qep'a' loSDIch, {vegh} refers to passing through an
>aperture. I want a word for passing over an object, space, place. I want a
>word for crossing over a river, whether on a boat or on a bridge or on foot.
Okay. You want to cross over a river? {bIQtIq Dop Hop yIghoS}
>flame = qul Okay, but I prefer qulHom, now.
Why is "flame" any less important than "fire"? I'd tend to use {qulHom} to
refer to a spark, or to the glowing embers after the true fire has died down.
>arrangement = tlham No. {tlham} is only slang for a societal order (KGT).
>I don't agree it would work for "flower arrangement" or "arrangement of books
>in a library".
If you're talking about a vase of flowers, {bey'} sounds about right. For
the way books are placed on shelves, I'd consider {pat}.
>I know I'm not allowed to extract {morgh} from {may'morgh}, but it produces
>evidence of being the better word, if MO extracts it for us. We have not
>addressed a verb for "to arrange [things]".
The better word for *what*? I don't see how what the idea is you're trying
to express can't be expressed using the existing vocabulary.
>wind up; I want to wind up a spring.
Fine; one of my answers was {Huj}.
>wind around; I want to express "The road winds around the mountain."
Is this supposed to mean the course changes to miss the mountain then goes
back to what it would have been if the mountain weren't there? {jun} seems
close, but I'd probably just describe what the road does. "Winds around"
isn't part of my everyday vocabulary; I'd ask you to explain it in any case.
>branch, twig; parts of a tree, please.
I might call them the tree's arms and fingers, or perhaps {roHomDu'}.
>tributary; branch of a stream or river.
Sounds like a {bIQtIQHom}.
>bead, droplet; a bit of liquid.
What's wrong with {taS moQHom}?
>frame, outline; the defining limits of an area, a field, the border around a
>picture.
This is trivial: {veH}.
>sew, stitch = tay'moHmeH SIrgh lo' Very good. But, would not Klingons
>have a single word for "sew" considering the length of their history of
>wearing clothing?
Why the constant focus on *words* instead of *meaning*?
>Again, these are wishful wishes. I just hope Maltz and Marc Okrand reveal
>even more wonderful tlhIngan Hol to us mere Earthlings. --peHruS
vaj mu'mey DaSovbogh yIlo'taH.
nuHmey Daghajbogh DabuSHa'chugh, nuHmey chu' Dabajbe'ta'.
>BTW, prohibited from extracting meanings from compounds..........
>
>include (v) = peH (from peHghep, wherein {peH} would appear to be a noun, not
>a verb anyway)
>bond, bonding (n) = ruS (from ruStay)
>
>So, don't try to use them as separate words.
Good advice -- so why do you present them as such?
-- ghunchu'wI'