tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 05 04:22:05 1998
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Re: Translation of English Past and Present Perfect Tenses inKlingon
ja' mIHayl:
>If there are errors (or better inconsistancies) in canon, then looking at the
>examples and what they imply is the best way of resolving questions. That
>is in fact how all language grammars are compiled. Rules are derived from
>looking at the language.
In our case, we have another resource we can consult: the language's creator.
>From time to time, he addresses errors and/or inconsistencies. Sometimes he
manages to explain why what looked like an error is really correct. At times
he clarifies things that weren't completely explained in earlier works. This
is what happened in the case of translating past tense: CK gives clear and
unambiguous instructions simply not to mark tense at all.
>Once again, I am not maintaining that -pu' means past tense, but rather that the
>aspect "completed" is most often best translated by an English past tense, which
>includes simple, past, present perfect, or past perfect tenses.
"Perfect" is an aspect, not a tense. Perhaps the distinction isn't yet
clear to you? Read the FAQ for a discussion of the difference.
>And conversely,
>except in unusual cases, an English past tense is best translated into
>Klingon using -pu'.
Perhaps, if other context is absent, {-pu'} can be an appropriate tool for
indicating an action that occurred in the past. But if the idea of a past
time has already been established, {-pu'} is definitely unnecessary, and is
often just plain wrong.
>> wa'Hu' jIghung. Yesterday I was hungry.
>> DaHjaj jI'oj. Today, I am thirsty.
>> wa'leS jIDoy'. Tomorrow, I will be tired.
>
>> The first example doesn't fit your general rule at all.
>
>Majority of canon? You give one example of a verb without -pu' translated as
>a past tense against the 30 examples which I give of past tense and 20 examples
>of present perfect. wa'Hu' jIghung could simply be explained as clipped Klingon
>lacking the -pu' marker because the temporal adverb makes it redundant.
Listen to Conversational Klingon. This example wasn't picked at random; it
is on the tape as an explanation of how Klingon does *not* mark tense at all.
>His examples do fit the description. He says that -pu' indicates that the
>action is completed. What you are ignoring is that in the majority of
>cases, English past tense implies that the action is completed.
Past tense says it's completed *in the present*. If the time of the sentence
is already in the past, then the action is happening, not completed.
>Your definition of -pu' as defining an action of the verb that occurs before
>the time context of the sentence is not the canonical definition, which is
>simply that the action is completed.
Perfective aspect says the action is completed in the context of the sentence.
If the context of the sentence is a date 43 years in the past, the action of
charghwI''s birth is not a completed one. {-pu'} would not be right here,
even though his birth took place in the past.
>In summary. I have not and do not maintain that -pu' indicates past tense.
>It indicates a perfective aspect, which implies that the verbal action is
>completed. But completed action is best translated into English by either a
>simple past or a present perfect.
Or by a past perfect, or a future perfect. Or by other syntax, such as
"I managed to fix it" or "he accomplished scraping the hull." Or sometimes
by a simple present: {vIghIjlu'pu'} "I'm scared."
>Conversely, a simple past or a present perfect in English nearly always
>implies that the action is completed and can best be translated by using
>the -pu' aspect marker. These conclusions are supported overwhelmingly by
>the examples in the works of Marc Okrand, which are the only canonical
>evidence that is valid.
In most English narratives, the entire text is written in past tense. The
action, however, is occurring throughout the narrative. Consider a script
for a movie -- it's effectively the same thing as a book, but it's all in
present tense. That's sort of how a story looks in Klingon, where tense is
not part of the grammar.
-- ghunchu'wI'