tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 03 03:08:22 1998

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Re: Translation of English Past and Present Perfect Tenses in

-----Original Message-----
From: William H. Martin <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: Translation of English Past and Present Perfect Tenses in


>On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:54:16 -0800 (PST) Qov <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>[Great post snipped. Go get 'im, Qov!]
>
>> Grrr.  I hate writing these posts -- not that I hate the fact that you
are
>> thinking and challenging usages, that is good, like when SuStel
overturned
>> the way we used verbs of saying --
>
>Actually, I forget whether SuStel or I noticed this first, but I
>know we were immediate allies to this cause, fighting off waves
>of resistance until we convinced everyone else that we had it
>right. I think that it was my idea and SuStel whipped out some
>really convincing examples from canon; the jokes. I'm open for
>more accurate memories, but I do think I deserve at least
>mention for this particular breakthrough, which I happily share
>with SuStel in any case. I like to think we did it as allies.
>
>How do YOU remember it, SuStel?

I'm pretty sure that I had the idea first.  I know that we each came up with
the same theory independently.  I made known my ideas, but didn't get much
response (I think it was before I became BG, and I wasn't quite as
well-known as I am now).  I believe I thought of this stuff before {qep'a'
wejDIch}, which is why I made such a big fuss of putting it on the wish
list.

I definitely remember reading your post, where you said, "My god, we're
doing this all wrong!" and showed us your idea, and I thought, "That's what
I said!  Someone agrees with me!  Yes!"  I also noticed that you seemed to
think that you were the first to think of it, but as long as you were
getting attention to this idea, I didn't care much.

I seem to recall quoting getting behind you at that point, and bringing out
the canon which had led me to the solution in the first place.

Grrr . . . I can't search the archives.  The search engine doesn't seem to
be working.

**************

Okay, I've just searched the archives manually (ugh!), and have found
something which conforms closely with what I remember.  I'll list the links
needed to follow the thread.  (The thread was called "Criticism.")

/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Jun96/0754.html    (In which I use a
verb of saying, {jatlh}, according to my theory, which I'm not yet sure if I
had already explained.)

/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Jun96/0769.html  (In which peHruS
agrees with the point I was making, which had little to do with verbs of
saying.)

/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Jul96/0161.html  (In which charghwI'
challenges my no-object prefix on {jatlh}!  There's our answer, I think.)

/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Jul96/0161.html  (In which I explain my
theory on verbs of saying.)

/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Jul96/0192.html  (In which DloraH
questions something I posted in 0161.)

/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Jul96/0192.html  (In which I further
clarify my theory and respond to DloraH's objection.)

Note also that it was with this thread that I began to quote others with
{jatlh} instead of "wrote" or {ghItlh}.

Unfortunately, I cannot locate charghwI''s post where he details the verbs
of saying solution.  Hey ~mark, what's up with the search engine?  I found
one of charghwI''s posts where he was already advocating the idea in April
97. /tlhIngan-Hol/1997/Apr97/0426.html  Hmmm . . . going
farther back (I'm just enjoying wasting huge amounts of time playing
detective), I see you agreed with me on the subject back in November 96.
/tlhIngan-Hol/1996/Nov96/0635.html

*Sigh* I can't find it.  Perhaps you know when you posted it?

Anyway, I'm just glad we got to the bottom of it, and that Okrand later
vindicated us!  :)

SuStel
Stardate 98008.1

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