tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 23 13:32:41 1998

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Re: poH qelDI' tlhIngan Hol mu'tlheghmey

: >SKI:  I believe {'ej} joins sentences by joining the action of the verbs,
much
: >as described at length in TKD.  I do not feel confined to using it with
: >concurrent actions alone.  I have noticed that the verb suffixes {-DI'} and
: >{-taHvIS} help tell us the relationship of time that the two clauses' verbs
: >have, also.
: >
: >peHruS
: 
: show me canon examples.
: I don't have a closed mind on this.  You just need to prove your idea.  The
: canon we've discussed so far support my idea.
: 
: DloraH

Don't forget {-pa'}.

I must admit I haven't been able to follow the <'ej> threads closely, due to
a malfunctioning home computer causing me to loose several emails in recent
days, but this time I must agree with peHruS et al. <'ej> implies nothing
whatsoever about concurrence or sequence, just like "and" in English. The
conjunction simply links statements which the speaker feels are equally
"true" or relevant, as opposed to <pagh>, <qoj> or <'ach>, which add varying
degrees of contrast. 

<'ej> certainly has been used in a sequential sense in canon. I know that
some perversely think that the clauses in:
     teplIj yIwoH 'ej pa'lIjDaq yIjaH 
     Pick up your baggage and go to your room. (CK)
are not sequential, but how about:

yIyong 'ej pa' yIQam! 
Get in and stand there. (CK)
[Climb into the jitney and then go stand over there (out of the way?).]

SuvmeH 'ej charghmeH bogh tlhInganpu' 
Klingons are born to fight and to conquer. (TKW)
[Conquest is a result of fighting.]

'etlh QorghHa'lu'chugh ragh 'etlh nIvqu' 'ej jejHa'choH 
Even the best blade will rust and grow dull unless it is cared for. (TKW)
[Growing dull is a result of rusting, but I can see how some might argue
they are simultaneous]

juDev 'ej Dujvam ra'wI' DagheS 'e' vItlhob 
I ask you to lead us as commander of this ship.
("I request that you lead us and that you assume the duties of commander of
this ship.") KGT 
[This one's sort of backward: you must formally assume command (a one time
occurrence) before you can lead us. Not that anyone would refuse to follow
the famous Gen. Martok whether or not he is officially his CO, but the
phrase is part of the traditional change of command ceremony on Klingon ships.]

romuluSngan Sambogh 'ej HoHbogh nejwI' 
Romulan hunter-killer probe (KCD)
[You must hunt someone down and locate him before you can kill him.]

pIj maSuvpu' batlh maSuvpu' 'ej maQapbejta'
In our many battles, we have fought with honor and achieved VICTORY! (Hallmark)
[Again, victory is a result of the fighting, honorable or otherwise.]

maj. 'ej...? 
Good. [And...?] (ST5) 
[Koord prompts a crestfallen Klaa to take the next step while apologizing to
Kirk. Note that {'ej} was not translated in the subtitles, but is clearly
audible.]

Finally, pay particular attention to these lines from the Anthem, which
Okrand translated into Klingon from Hilary Bader's original English text:

maSuv manong 'ej maHoHchu' 
We fight, we love, and then we kill.
[Presumably not all at the same time!]

batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv. pa' reH maSuvtaHqu' 
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where we
battle forever.
[An honorable warrior joins the Black Fleet after he dies, not while he is
dying - though this is admittedly a theological issue.]

Again, apologies if these examples have been discussed before, but the
discussion seemed to tempting to resist.

Voragh

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