tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 05 12:37:34 1998

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Re: KLBC: IRC channel tlhIngan HolvaD (taHpu': [your suggestion]

>> vay' vIchup: tlhIngan Hol buSbogh IRC channel tu'nISlu'.
> IRC channel tlhIngan HolvaD: IRCnet #Klingon

I"m assuming you are aiming at "IRC channel for Klingon: IRCnet 
#Klingon."  This isn't actually a complete sentence in English, but 
even as a sentence fragment your Klingon is a bit confused.

The construction {<X> <Y>vaD}, where X and Y are both 
nouns, means "for X's Y" or "for the Y of X" with the implication 
that X's Y is the recipient, the beneficiary, or the indirect object 
of the action of the main verb in the clause. "For the IRC channel's 
Klingon language" doesn't make sense.

tlhIngan HolvaD IRC channel vISamta': IRCnet #Klingon

"I have found an IRC channel for the Klingon language: IRCnet 
#Klingon."

This implies that you looked for it and have succeeded in finding it. 
 
> pa'Daq jIH pIj

Reread the section on adverbs in chapter 5.  Note that with a couple 
of exceptions, {pIj} NOT among them, an adverb precedes the clause 
whose verb it modifies.  The dictionary also tells you, I believe it 
is at the end of the nouns chapter, that the nouns {pa'} and {naDev} 
never take the locative {-Daq}.  Your words say roughly: "I am in the 
room.  Often."

> taHbe' tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaH Hoch 'ach Dajbej Hoch

I can see that you are aiming for something like "Everyone doesn't
speak Klingon all the time, but everyone is certainly interesting."

The verb {taH} means "continue, go on, endure" or "be at a negative 
angle."  It doesn't mean "be continuous."  The idea of continuity is 
expressed by the *suffix* {-taH}.  There is actually a discussion 
going in this group and in the KLI journal HolQeD at the moment about 
whether {jatlhlaHtaHbe'} would mean "can't speak continuously" or 
"can speak discontinuously" or "continuously can't speak."  I think 
the meaning is ambiguous between the first two possibilities.

I would cast it as {tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaHtaHbe' Hoch 'ach Dajbej 
Hoch} and then step back to duck the people who say it could mean 
"Everyone is continuously incapable of speaking Klingon" and 
"Everyone can speak Klingon on and off."  I think the context 
resolves the ambiguouity.

> pa'Daq yIghoS jIchup

The verb {ghoS} takes the destination or course as its direct object. 
The locative is redundant here.  Aso look at the "sentence as object" 
construction in chapter 6, and see that when one verb is the object 
of another verb other than {neH}, a special construction is required. 
As always, the prefix appropriate to the object must be used.  An 
imperative is only used with an actual imperative, not an implied 
imperative, as when you add in words like "I want you to"  "you 
should" or "i recommend."  If you say flat out to do something, use 
the imperative.  If you hedge and actually make a statement about 
what you want done, it's no longer an imperative.  The word {ghoS} 
means "approach, go away from, follow a course."  It's emphasis is on 
getting there.  Personally, I would use {jaH} here because it isn't 
the approaching or the route to get there that you are interested in. 
The sentence:

{pa' SujaH 'e' vIchup} 
"I recommend that you (plural) go there."

> I don't think that last sentence is correct, but it's the best I 
> can make of it.

> at least I'm quite satisfied about my capabilities after
> only one afternoon of studying the language... ;-)

You have the OVS structure down and you're putting verb and noun 
suffixes on verbs and nouns, respectively.  (This might not sound 
like an accomplishment, but not everyone starts out that way.) For 
one afternoon you're not doing badly at all ...

> I've got the basic grammar down,

You're still missing a few points. 

> but I still have to look up almost every word. 

So did we all, once.  I even have some ten-year old worksheets to 
prove it (you can see where an off-by-one error on lookup made me use 
completely incorrect vocabulary).

> it'll improve in time, no doubt.

Yes, time and work.  Please include the English translation of what 
you are trying to say to reduce the amount of guesswork I have to do 
to help you improve.

> Chakotay, another beginning Klingonist

Qov, your grouchy neighbourhood Beginners' Grammarian.
(jIl Sep taghwI' qeSwI' qej?)

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