tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 04 12:54:30 1998
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Re: Locatives and {-bogh} (was Re: KLBC Poetry)
- From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Locatives and {-bogh} (was Re: KLBC Poetry)
- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:54:25 -0500 (EST)
- In-reply-to: <000301bd2d52$37c27160$89152399@david> ([email protected])
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:07:53 -0800 (PST)
>From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Anderson <[email protected]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
>Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 2:27 AM
>Subject: Re: Locatives and {-bogh} (was Re: KLBC Poetry)
>
>
>>ja'pu' Qermaq:
>>>Qe'Daq vIje'qangbogh qagh wISoplaH.
>>>We can eat qagh in the restaurant which I am willing to buy.
>>
>>Umm...I don't think so at all. There's no way I can get myself to use
>>{Qe'Daq} in this sentence as anything other than a locative. It's a bit
>>ambiguous as to whether it's the locative of {je'} or {Sop}, but it is
>>*not* the object of either verb. And with no obvious object to act as
>>head noun, {vIje'qangbogh} falls flat and fails to mean much of anything
>>to me.
>
>meQtaHbogh qachDaq Suv qoH neH.
>
>{qach} is the head noun of the relative clause, and the entire noun phrase
>is a locative.
>
>Qe'Daq vIje'qangbogh qagh wISoplaH.
>
>{Qe'} is the head noun of the relative clause, and the entire noun phrase is
>a locative.
>
>Whether or not {meQtaHbogh qachDaq Suv qoH neH} is a fluke, Qermaq's
>sentence DOES fit the same pattern, only with the head noun as object
>instead of subject.
Depends on which pattern you see. You see a pattern of marking a head
noun. I see a pattern of marking the phrase with a postposition. The
canon example conforms to both patterns, so both can claim it as an
example. However, the two patterns view them differently, so the
extrapolation is different. By my standards, your extrapolation is wrong,
and does NOT follow the canon pattern. By your standards, the reverse is
true.
It is too glib to say "it follows the pattern, this is what Okrand has
given us." What he has given us is a sentence, not a pattern or schema.
The pattern is our own making, and there's more than one choice for it.
~mark