tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Dec 03 14:48:12 1998
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: Another question
- From: "Patrick Masterson" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Another question
- Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:47:59 PST
>Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:49:17 -0800 (PST)
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Another question
>
>Patrick Masterson wrote:
>
>>
>> I have noticed that there seems to be some debate on using -'e' to
flag
>> the head noun in a relative clause. This doesn't seem to be a
problem,
>> unless you use a pronoun as a verb, in which case the subject gets a
>> -'e'.
>> Let's say I want to write "The Terran is the officer who got hit by
the
>> guest." How would I do that?
>
>
>Short answer: You can't. Klingon doesn't have a true passive voice. I
rather
>suspect this was an intentional omission on Okrand's part: Klingons may
prefer
>acting to being acted upon. One way around this is to make it a
relative
>(active) clause -- {yaS qIpbogh meb} "the officer whom the guest hit"
-- as
>you've done.
>
>>
>> 1. Don't flag the head noun and hope there's no confusion:
>> yaS qIpbogh meb ghaH tera'ngan'e'.
>> (Is it "The Terran is the guest who hit the officer." or "The Terran
is
>> the officer who got hit by the guest."?)
>
>
>Literally, the former: "The Terran is the officer whom the guest hit" -
though
>you could get away with using the passive ("The Terran is the officer
who got
>hit by the guest") in an English translation.
>
>You're right, though. {yaS qIpbogh meb ghaH tera'ngan'e'} is
ambiguous: is
>the
>Terran the guest, or the officer? If the context doesn't make it clear
- and
>it generally does, BTW - one way to avoid the problem is simply to
reverse the
>sentence:
>
> tera'ngan ghaH yaS qIpbogh meb'e'
> The guest who hit the officer is the Terran.
>
> tera'ngan ghaH yaS'e' qIpbogh meb
> The officer whom the guest hit is the Terran.
>
>in order to make the topicalized subject clear. Another "trick" is to
break
>this up into two independent clauses or sentences:
>
> tera'ngan wImuH - yaS qIpbogh meb'e' ghaH.
> We executed the Terran; he's the guest who hit the officer.
>
> tera'nganvetlh Dalegh'a'? yaS'e' qIpbogh meb ghaH.
> Do you see that Terran. He's the officer whom the guest hit.
>
>Basically, combine this with your next statement about the Terran (i.e.
"What
>about him?"). Not perfect, but it works without inventing a lot of
>idiosyncratic new grammar or formulae, like double topics.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub
judice
>Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars
Poetica)
>
Hmmm i think i might have figured out a way.
"The guest hit an officer. The Terran is that officer."
yaS qIp meb. yaSvetlh ghaH tera'ngan'e'
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com