tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Apr 25 19:38:17 1998
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Re: KLBC: qID - cha' 'ay'
ja' Edy:
>(quvchoH loDvetlh 'ej potlhchoH. rut tlhoblu'):
>(That man become honored and important. Sometimes one asked):
Again, I don't know why you said "sometimes" here. {rut} means that the
action sometimes occurs, and it sometimes doesn't occur. It doesn't always
happen. It doesn't necessarily happen most of the time; it doesn't have to
happen rarely. It just happens occasionally.
It looks like you do mean "at some unspecified time." If it's not specified,
you don't need to mention it.
>- latlh Dochvetlh Dajatlh'a'
>- Did you say that to someone?
"Did you speak another of those things?" When {latlh} comes before a noun,
it means "other [things]" or "another [thing]".
Skybox Card S31 {Hegh bey} "Death Howl" says:
HeghDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' pagh tlhIngan SuvwI' HoHlu'DI' Heghtay lulop
latlh tlhInganpu'.
"When a Klingon warrior dies or is killed, other Klingons may perform
a ceremonial howl or yell as part of the Klingon death ritual."
The important part here is {...latlh tlhInganpu'} "...other Klingons..."
Your Klingon sentence doesn't have the "to someone" idea in it. Where did
it go?
>- ghobe'. vIjatlhbe'
>- No. I didn't say it.
>
>- qatlho'
>- I thank you
maj. The grammar and vocabulary are perfect.
> (loDvetlh luvoqchoH. loD quvqu'. pay' ghaHvaD Qu' potlh nob jup)
> ( They become to trust that man. He was a very honored man.
>Suddenly a friend offers him an important job.)
The first and last sentences are okay, with just a slight difference between
the words {nob} "give" and "offer". But the middle sentence is backwards;
{quvqu' loD} "The man was really honored." You *might* just have left off
a {ghaH} -- {loD quvqu' ghaH} is literaly "he was a really honored man" --
but I think that sort of wordy phrasing is weak.
>- qatlh Qu'vam chonob
>- Why you are giving me this job?
maj...
>- Qu'vam ta'laH neH loD quv
>- Only a honored man is able to perform this job
{neH} after a verb trivializes the action. You've said he is "merely able
to accomplish" it. You want instead to restrict the noun: {loD quv neH}
"only an honored man".
Do you realize that the friend is saying "only an honored male" is capable
of the task? If the gender of the person is irrelevant to the ability, you
should probably choose {nuv} or {ghot}, even though the person he's talking
to indeed is a {loD}.
>(noychoH. Sov Hoch 'ach not jatlh. De'mey law' ghaj 'ach De'mey pegh.
>(He became famous. Everyone knows him but he never speaks. He
>has many informations but he keep them secret.)
{Sov Hoch 'ach not jatlh} is extremely ambiguous. The subject and object
change midway through but you didn't make that clear. Without the English
I wouldn't have had a clue that you didn't mean {not jatlh Hoch}.
{De'mey} is probably a valid word in Klingon, but I might never have come
up with it myself. "Informations" is a strange thing in English; the word
"information" is what's known as a "collective" or "mass" noun, and doesn't
get pluralized or counted easily. That's probably why we find it handy to
use the word "much" to translate {law'} at times; that's not really a good
translation, but it's an artifact of the way English works.
>(jaj qaStaHvIS Qumlu'. jatlh ghogh jum):
>(one day someone communicate him. An odd voice spoke):
Your translation of "one day" is flawed on several levels. The word order
should be {qaStaHvIS jaj}, but that means "while a day is happening" or
"during a day". It doesn't really express the right idea. I'd usually
leave off an indefinite time reference like this anyway; it doesn't add
anything to the story.
TKW page 177 says {wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD
nen moj.} "The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade."
The Klingon {wa' jaj} is a direct translation of "one day", similar to the
way you want to use it. However, it is identifying a *specific* day, not
referring to a date that lacks the importance to be specified.
>- Hoch'e' vISov
>- I know EVERYTHING
>
> (yay'choH. vaj QIt jatlh):
>(he become shocked. Then he said slowly):
You probably should be more explicit about who became shocked. It sounds
like the odd voice is still being described here.
Again, reconsider how you're using {vaj} here. Do you really mean that he
became shocked, therefore he spoke slowly?
>- nuqjatlh
>- what did you say?
>
>(jatlhqa' ghogh jum):
>(the odd voice said again):
Fine, except that using {-qa'} to mean "repeat" isn't certain. The Klingon
sentence is great as it is: "The odd voice resumed speaking" makes perfect
sense here.
>- Hoch'e' vISovchu'qu'
>- I KNOW EVERYTHING (perfectly)
Since he didn't say the same thing this time, the "again" in your English
translation of the previous sentence is even less appropriate than the {-qa'}
in the Klingon.
>- nuq bISov
>- what do you know?
{DaSov} -- {nuq} is the object.
>- bISovba'
>- you obvious know
maj. (The English adverb is "obviously", by the way.)
>(Daqvetlh yInvIpchoH. veng Hop yIn 'e' wuq. ngab. 'e' yajlaHbe'mo'
>juppu'wI' vaj lunejchoH. qatlh ngab. nuq Doch So'lI'. veng HopDaq Samlu').
>(he become afraid to live in that place. He decided to live in a far
>city. He disapeared. As his friends didn't understand why he disapeared,
>they started to look for him. Why he disapeared? What is he hidding?
If you're using the word {yIn}, you need to put the locative suffix {-Daq} on
the place he's living. It would probably be better to change the verb to say
{Dab} "reside in" instead.
{ngab. 'e' yajlaHbe'mo'} is pretty clearly "because he cannot understand that
he disappears." You got the prefix wrong; plural friends and {'e'} as object
calls for {lu-}. "His friends" is {juppu'Daj} (you said "my friends").
Consider saying {ngab. meq luyajbe'mo' juppu'Daj...}. You're not referring
to the previous sentence itself, but to his reason for disappearing.
Good, {vaj lunejchoH} uses both {vaj} and {lu-} correctly.
{nuq Doch} is controversial. We don't know that it can mean "what thing",
and it's not necessary: {nuq So'lI'} "What is he hiding?"
You omitted an English translation for {veng HopDaq Samlu'}, but the meaning
is clear and quite correct: "He was found in a remote city."
>(ram qaStaHvIS vengDaq paw loDmey puS. juHDaj Dech vaj 'el. tagh yol).
>(One night few men arrived at city. They surrounded his house and
>then they entered. A conflict begun).
{ram qaStaHvIS} has exactly the same problems as {jaj qaStaHvIS} did above.
Turn it around: {qaStaHvIS ram} "during the night" works okay here, but it
doesn't mean "one night".
You definitely need to work on the appropriate use of {vaj}. Here's a clue:
Never translate it as "then". Always translate it as "thus" or "therefore".
That will keep you from being mislead into using it to mean "and then".
>(ghoghDaj luQoylaHchu' jIlpu'Daj. jach):
>(His neighbours could hear perfectly his voice. He was yelling):
Fine, but consider {jachtaH}.
>- qID 'oH. qID'e' 'oH. pagh vISov. jIqID.
>- It was a joke. It was only a JOKE. I know nothing. I was kidding.
Maybe {jIqIDqu'} or {jIqIDta'} "I have kidded!" If you want to get across
the "only" idea, try {qID neH 'oH} and {jIqIDpu' neH}.
>(po qaStaHvIS lomDaj Samlu'. HoH 'Iv. not 'e' luSov 'ach meq luSovchu'
>Hoch. Sovchu'qu' loDvetlh).
>(His corpse was found during the morning. Who killed him?
>They never know who killed him, but everyone knows well the
>reason. That man knows a lot).
"During the morning" is {qaStaHvIS po}. But do you really mean "while the
morning was happening"? It seems to me that "in the morning" makes as much
or more sense here; that's just a time stamp of {po} at the beginning.
{Sam} means "locate, seek and find". If the neighbors who heard him screaming
went over to look for his body and found it, that's fine. But if the corpse
was just lying there and someone discovered it, the approprate verb is {tu'}.
The rest of it is great.
majQa', Edy. Lots of advanced stuff, with a wide variety of constructions and
only a couple of consistent errors that I hope will be easily corrected. I'm
looking forward to your being a long term participant here.
-- ghunchu'wI'