tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Apr 13 18:23:13 1998
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(Fwd) RE: The Four Questions
- From: "Garrett Michael Hayes" <[email protected]>
- Subject: (Fwd) RE: The Four Questions
- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:58:49 -0400
- Organization: Daystrom & Dunsel
- Priority: normal
Sorry about that. (New e-mail client version - haven't mastered all the settings
yet.) Let's try this WITHOUT the rich-text features turned on....
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: Self <ghayesms>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: The Four Questions
Send reply to: [email protected]
Date sent: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:57:19 -0400
On 11 Apr 98, at 13:37, Qov wrote:
> At 23:05 98-04-09 -0700, Tad wrote:
>
> }> From: Garrett Michael Hayes[SMTP:[email protected]]
>
> }> --- The Four Questions in tlhIngan Hol ----
> }> qatlh Hoch rammey pIm ramvam?
>
> }I'd prefer {qatlh pIm ramvam Hoch rammey je}.
>
> Good point.
>
> }> Hoch rammeyDaq tIr ror tIr rorbe' joq wISop maH.
>
> }I suppose that {ror} would be a good choice for leavened, without
> }getting into the technicalities of *how* bread is leavened. Any reason
> }why you chose {ror} instead of {pI'}?
> }{-Daq} is used for location and direction, not
> }time. Maybe something similar to {qaStaHvIS Hochrammey} would be better.
>
> Simpler. {ramvam wISop} "we eat it this night." To refer to an event at a
> time, just use the time word. {po maHu'} "we get up in the morning."
>
> }> qatlh ramvamDaq naHmey wIbqu' DISop maH?
>
> Again don't use the {-Daq} on times.
> These seem to be whole leaves we're taking about, indeed {por}
> might be the word to use. >
}> qatlh ramvamDaq bIH vutmeH bIQ na' <haroses> je DIlo' maH?
> {bIH DIvutmeH}
> }I don't know if there's a better word than {choq} that you could use to
> }indicate the celebration of the service..
> I agree. Consider {taHmoH} and {lop}.
>
> Qov [email protected]
> Beginners' Grammarian
>
After reading Tad Staufer's excellent suggestions, I made several changes from
my original. Thanks especially for the catch on "differ"!
A central point of the questions is to differentiate the current activity from
normal activity. The English does so by pointing out the "otherness" of other
nights. The same thing might be accomplished in English by stressing the
"thisness" of the current night. Klingon gives us a syntactical way of doing
this, while English does not (we do it by stress). So I included the topic suffix
'e' on the references to "this night".
I also took his "qaStaHvIS" suggestion. So here's what I used....
----The Four Questions (as delivered) ----
qatlh pIm ramvam’e’ Hoch rammey je ?
qaStaHvIS Hoch rammey tIr ror tIr rorbe’ joq wISop maH.
qatlh qaStaHvIS ramvam’e’ Hoch tIr rorbe’ neH wISop maH?
qaStaHvIS Hoch rammey Hoch naHmey DISop maH.
qatlh qaStaHvIS ramvam’e’ naHmey wIbqu’ DISop maH?
qaStaHvIS Hoch rammey naHmey DitlhorghmoHbe’ maH.
qatlh qaStaHvIS ramvam’e’ bIH vutmeH bIQ na’ <haroses> je DIlo’ mah?
qaStaHvIS Hoch rammey maSop ‘ej yupma’ le’ wImaqbe’ maH.
qatlh qaStaHvIS ramvam’e’ <Sedar> tayvam wIchoq maH?
---------------------------------------------------------
Having now read Qov's commentary, I would have simplified the time-references
just as he indicates. Also, he pointed out some very good word choices that I
missed. So, here's what I *would* have used....
----The Four Questions (incorporating suggestions from Qov) ----
qatlh pIm ramvam’e’ Hoch rammey je ?
Hoch rammey tIr ror tIr rorbe’ joq wISop maH.
qatlh ramvam’e’ Hoch tIr rorbe’ neH wISop maH?
Hoch rammey Hoch naHmey DISop maH.
qatlh ramvam’e’ naHmey wIbqu’ DISop maH?
Hoch rammey naHmey DitlhorghmoHbe’ maH.
qatlh ramvam’e’ bIH DIvutmeH bIQ na’ <haroses> je DIlo’ mah?
Hoch rammey maSop ‘ej yupma’ le’ wImaqbe’ maH.
qatlh ramvam’e’ <Sedar> tayvam wIlop maH?
-------------------------------------------------
As delivered, it was well received. There was some general amusement at the
concept, until the host explained that he had asked me to do this, not as a
joke, but as an extension of the idea that this ceremony was being conducted
in every corner of the world, in every language spoken on the planet. The
exercise in Klingon was to express the idea that the ideas and the ceremony
are what bind Jews together, not the words themselves.
I think he offered me (especially as I am not Jewish) a singular honor, and I
thank him for it. I also thank those on this list who helped me do at least a
semi-creditable job.
Garrett Michael Hayes
[email protected]
* Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for
dinner. Liberty is two wolves attempting to have a sheep for
dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed sheep.