tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Oct 13 12:37:06 1997
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
KLBC: Requiem - Recordare/Confutatis/Lacrimosa
- From: "Eduardo Fonseca" <[email protected]>
- Subject: KLBC: Requiem - Recordare/Confutatis/Lacrimosa
- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:34:04 -0300
Qov wrote:
> > What is the difference from: <Sam> and <nej> ?
>
> Good question.
> {Sam} is "find, locate" and {nej} is "look for, search, try to find'
>
> qaStaHvIS wej jaj vInejlI'. DaHjaj vISam.
> "I looked for it for three days. Today I found it."
>
> vay' DaSamDI' Danejbe'choH.
> "When you find something, you stop looking for it."
Okay .. I got the idea.
> > noHwI' quv, qaSpa' yoj jaj HeSmeywIj tIlIj
> > jIDIv jIlujpu'mo'. QeylIS joHwI', HeSmeywIj tIlIj
> > pujwI' yemwI' joq DalIjpu'bogh, HIlIj
> > (you, wich had forgiven the weakers and sinners, forgive me)
>
> You're still saying "forget me" instead of "forgive me." Can you see
> how "HeSmeywIj tIlIj" works for "forgive my sins" but "HIlIj" is
Yes.
> different than forgive me? Find another solution. I suggested {laj}
> before. If that's not the right connotation, find something else.
ghunchu'wI' suggested {pIchHa'} and I liked it very much.
> But I'm pretty sure you don't want to ask to be forgotten.
of course no. :-))
> > chavmey quv vIghajbe' vaj qIchQo'
> > (I don't have great achievments, so, don't comdemn me)
>
> Imperative prefixes: when you are directly asking, forbidding,
> requesting, pleading, ordering or otherwise giving someone
> instructions, you use an imperative prefix on the main verb. These
> prefixes are in a table on page 34. The prefix varies according 1.
> to the number of people to whom the command is being given, and 2.
> who or what the command is to be performed on. In this case you are
> asking that the action [not] be performed on you. The table shows
> that when the object is first person singular, "me," the prefix is
> {HI-}. {HIqIchQo'} - "don't condemn me."
Ok.
> > nIH DeSlIj HIDev 'ej qIjyo' HImuv
> > (Lead me on your right side and join me into the Black Fleet)
> >
> > More imperative prefixes and a couple of N5 suffixes needed. How
> > will you say "on" and "into"?
> >
> > Really don't know. :(
>
> qay'be'. Now I can tell you. :) To say 'in' 'at' 'to' 'on' 'into'
> 'onto' 'toward' any physical object or location in Klingon we put the
> type 5 suffix {-Daq} on the noun representing that object. The
> resulting noun is _not_ the subject or object of the sentence. It
> Read more about {-Daq} in section <3.3.5> on the suffix {-Daq},
> <6.1> on word order, and <3.4> for an exception, when {-Daq} isn't
> used on a noun.
I'll do it.
> For "join me into the black fleet" I suggest you say "cause me to
> begin serving in the black fleet." It's less awkward in Klingon,
> even though it looks worse in English. Use the suffix {-choH} for
> "begin."
So, in this case something like:
nIH DeSlIj HIDev 'ej qIjyo'Daq HItoy'moH
(Lead me on your right side and let me serve in the Black Fleet)
> > nuchpu' tIpIch 'ej tay' yoHwI'pu' jIH je ghoDev
> > (Blame the cowards and lead the brave ones and me together)
>
> That's not bad. There's a problem that you have two verbs in one
> clause, though. {tay'} is not an adverb, it's a verb. Try writing
> it as "... lead the brave ones and me while we are together."
Humm ... >:-\ .. I did not like it. Too confused! May be:
nuchpu' tIpIch 'ej yoHwI'pu'Daq HIDevmoHtaH
(Blame the cowards and lead me toward the braves)
> > qa'wI' yIQorgh Daqoy'meH
> > (I beg you to take care my spirit)
>
> Here is a case where it looks like you would use the imperative, but
> you don't, because even though you say you are begging, you aren't
> directly begging. It's the same if you say "I want" "I need" "I
> ask" "I require" or something similar.
>
> About {-meH} for purpose clauses: To express the idea that an
> action is done for a purpose or in order that something happen, the
> verb representing the purpose or objective takes the type 9 suffix
> {-meH}. The {-meH} suffix *doesn't* go on the thing that is done
> to achieve that purpose. It goes on the purpose. The verb that has
> {-meH} on it always goes before the verb that it refers to.
> Examples: {SughojmeH Saqun} "I scold you so you learn" {bIyIntaHmeH
> SoH ghaH vIHoH} "I killed her in order for you to live" {QaghDaj
> So'meH yaS nep} "The officer lied in order to cover his mistakes."
>
> You *could* simply say {qa'wI' yIQorghneS} or even {qa'wI'
> yIQorghneSqu'} which would mean roughly, "Oh honoured one, please
> look after my spirit." Actual begging, rather than just saying
> you are begging. More direct.
Wow ... I liked this!!
qa'wI' yIQorghneSqu'
(Oh honoured one, please look after my spirit).
> > yoj jaj tu'lu'. jajvetlh Hoch qa' DanoHmeH bIghoS
> > Hochmey tIlIj quv QeylIS joHwI'. chaHvaD ngeHbej roj yInob. Qapla'
> > (Forgive them all, Kahless my lord. Give them the cosmic peace.
> > Amen)
> >
> > {Hoch} is gramatically singular,
>
> Once again, a stative verb FOLLOWS the noun it modifies. {qeylIS quv}
I have to make a revision in my first verses. I copied and paste
those ones .. that was the reason that I forgot and kept the stative verb
before the noun. I'll use the painsticks ..
> It really doesn't make sence to make Hoch plural. We don't say
> "alls" in English, and I don't think you say "todoses" do you?
Do you have a portuguese dictionary?? :-)) Of course we
don't say alls or todoses, but here, "todos" (all) has the sense of plural
and we use the plural form for all verbs. That was my difficult to understand.
Same problem for everyone, everybody. Here can use them both in singular
or in plural form. Depends how you use the form.
> "Everything" already refers to everything so what's the point of
> making it plural? {Hoch} is treated as grammatically singular, so
> you say {Hoch yIlIj}, but it represents plural objects so you don't
> need to say {Hochmey} or {Hochpu'}.
Okay. My idea using "Hochmey" is ALL spirits of over all places as the
exemple in TKD pg. 23. Forgive all and absolutly all spirits. No one will be
out of his forgiven.
> >> plus the problem of using {lIj} in
> >> reference to a person instead of an act recurs. Perhaps {laj} for
> >> this meaning.
> >{laj} ???
>
> Here is the way I see it. I don't know this religion, or what is
> encompassed by forgiving in this context, but I assume that the
> request is for the lord to not hold your sins/crimes against you and
> to accept you despite them. Therefore {HeSmeywIj tIlIj} asks that
> he forget what you *did*, but {HIlaj} asks that he accept *you*. If
> I were asking a traffic cop to forgive me, I can see saying
> {HIlIjneS}, but your goal is to have the lord accept you, isn't it?
This is the idea.
> The implication I suggest is "accept me despite my sins." That to me
> is close to the idea of forgiveness. You decide. Use whichever word
> you mean, but mean the word that you use.
I think {pIchHa'} (un-blame) very nice.
> > To say [forgive them ALL], it means, ALL spirits (with no
> > exception), can I use Hochmey (all over all places)?
>
> How about {Dat Hoch ...} "all everywhere"?
I think it works too. Let's use it so.
> >>toH. laHlIj DaDubtaH.
> > jIDub'eghtaH
>
> 'e' wIleghbej.
>
> Here are some sentences for you to translate to get those stative
> verbs in the right place. Double check them all. Remember, if you
> are using the verb as a verb, the verb goes BEFORE the subject, but
> if you are using it as an adjective it goes AFTER the noun.
> Examples: {chIS jIb} "hair is white" and {jIb chIS} "white hair."
>
> I am tired.
jIDoy'
> The big ship is blue.
SuD Duj tIn
> The hungry spies like black coffee.
qa'vIn qIj parHa' ghoqwI'pu' ghung
> A sharp knife is impressive.
Doj taj jej
> We watch the shiny targets.
ray' boch DIbej
> The irritable captain scolds the lazy yeoman because of the dirty
> floor.
rav lammo' ne' buD qun HoD bergh
> The alien man is thirsty and cold water is wet.
'oj nov loD 'ej yIQ bIQ bIr
__
Eduardo Edy Fonseca || Belo Horizonte, Brasil
Pau Brasil: The brazilian's VGA Planets home page
http://www.Geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2460
QaghmeylIj tIchID yIyoH. Hovmey DIvan