tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 01 22:24:37 1996
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Re: KLBC: B'Elanna
- From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: B'Elanna
- Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 0:24:32 CDT
- In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:06:38 -0700
trI'Qal HoD, chojangta'mo' qavanneS.
I certainly appreciate the detailed analysis of the paragraph I submitted
to your knife.
>>(ghojmeH taj Dalo''a'?)
>
>Um... *I* sure use a knife when I am learning... I cut the sentence up into
>little peices I can recognize, translate the pieces, and then compare the
>way they went together...
>Perhaps you mean <bIghojmoHmeH>? (Yes, you still need that verb prefix there!)
>Yes, I do slice up posts very carefully, but I like to think that you will
>learn from your training scars. {{:)
That was supposed to be a joke. (And I thought I was being clever. {{:)
Apparently you haven't seen the "Star Trek: Klingon" CD (or read the
novelization or listened to the audiotape). FYI, before young Klingons
undergo the nentay, become warriors and earn their d'k tahg, they use a
<ghojmeH taj>, a "boy's knife" as it's called though, "learner's knife"
would probably be a better translation.
I've rewritten it with your suggestions in mind. See if this version is
any better:
chay' pongDaj Hevpu' *be'elanna'?
*Romangan veS *joH'a' lutlh ghaH *Bellona'e'
'ej *Mars be'nal *Mars be'nI' ghap ghaH 'e' luHar *Romanganpu'.
(*Romangan Hol <veS> 'oS <*bellum> net Sov.)
*Roma veng HurDaq *Bellona quvmoHmeH chIrgh tIQ tu'lu'.
SutlhchuqmeH Duy'a' nov yejquv je
qoj cheghtaHDI' charghta'bogh Sa' vanmeH chIrghvamDaq ghom yejquv'e'.
How did B'Elanna get her name?
Bellona was the native Roman war goddess and was considered either the
wife or sister of Mars. (The Latin word for war is, of course, *bellum*.)
There was an ancient temple to Bellona outside the city of Rome. The
Senate would meet there when negotiating with foreign ambassadors or
greeting the return of victorious generals.
Notes:
be'elanna' = B'Elanna
joH'a' = god/goddess
Roma = Rome (< Lat. "Roma")
Romangan Hol = Latin
Mars = Roman god of war
>>The last sentence particularly gave me trouble, but I tried
>>something a little complicated here and wanted your opinion.
>
> Let's re-phrase your original slightly here: "In order that
>the High Council and foreign ambassadors negotiate with each other and in
>order that the High Council salute generals who conquer, the High Council
>meets there".
>
>I'm actually not going to translate that last sentence for you. {{:)
>
>>From what I have seen, I think you will have a relatively easy time
>translating that last sentence to Klingon the way I last gave you the English.
ghuy'cha'! This last sentence was the reason I decided to post it to the
KLBC in the first place! I wanted to try keeping it as a compound
sentence, but now I think that I have no choice but to split it into two.
Okrand sometimes indulges in more sophisticated syntax on the Skybox
cards, and this inspired me. I'm still not sure I've got it right.
Looking at this post again, I think that:
*Bellona quvmoHmeH *Roma veng HurDaq chIrgh tIQ tu'lu'
sounds better for the third sentence (especially as part of a paragraph)
but I'm not sure that fronting the -meH clause is strictly legal (though
<*Roma veng HurDaq chIrgh tIQ tu'lu'> is a complete sentence). But this
brings up the matter of style, something we don't talk about enough on
this list. Perhaps of necessity we tend to focus on grammar and
canon.
chay' bISov?
(BTW, I think Klingons would have appreciated the typical Roman subtlety
of negotiating with foreign ambassadors *inside* the temple to their war
goddess; the very place, in fact, where the Senate went to greet generals
on their triumphal return from foreign conquests. I'm sure the ambassadors
were always guaranteed a good view of the festivities!)
Voragh