tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 29 19:42:10 1996

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Re: KLBC

At 05:39 AM 8/26/96 -0700, Robert Darke wrote:
>ghItlhpu' Perry:
>
>> > From: HoD trI'Qal <[email protected]>
>> > ..... I think this might have just been a
>> > "brain fart", where you wanted -Daq, and just forgot to tack it on. 
>> (Hey,
>> > it happens to the best of us {{:/ ).
>> 
>> <yab taQbang> vIneHbe'!
>
>
>Heh heh ! <yab taQbang> vIparHa'qu'! Heh heh !!
>chaq *a classic* moj mu'tlheghvam !!


Woo!  Remember I said I would point out GOOD examples, too?  Well... this
letter isn't really a reply to the original sender... but to any and all
beginners who might be readong this thread...

Neither of these sentences are anything complex, but both are grammatically
correct!  majQa'!


(I refuse to comment on the contents of the post, though. {{:) )



>Qapla'
>Rob


Qapla' yay je!




>|         Parallel Dimensions        |  pabwIj yIlughmoH jIjatlhHa'chugh   |


Now, this is a bit more comlicated of a structure.  It translates:

        "Correct my grammar, if I mis-speak."


This is an excellent example of several structures!

First, it's a good example of how to use -Ha' to mean "wrongly" (yes, I know
this is used in a canon source on <jatlh> to mean "mis-speak", but that is a
meaning of -Ha' which is not often used/considered, I think... so I am
pointing it out. {{:) ).

Second, you have properly used -moH on <lugh>.  -moH is a kind of funny
suffix to grasp... when I am translating, and I see -moH on a verb, I think
"cause to <verb>.  This gives some really WEIRD translations, such as in
this case:  "cause to be right my grammar".  Yes, it SOUNDS wierd... but, it
will give you an "accurate" meaning every time, if you take it with a grain
of salt (or pepper {{:) ).  Please note that if you decide that you want to
use this method to help you translate, make SURE you don't put the object of
the <-moH>-ed verb after the "cause"!  i.e., don't think:  "cause my grammar
to be right", even though that sounds better in English!  I give this
caution because if you think of it that way, you will have a higher chance
of mis-translating if you get into a double-predicate-causative situation:
"I cause the prisoner to kill his friend".  If you tried to use -moH for
this, based on how you were thinking of -moH, you would get as far as ?qama'
vIHoHmoH?...  wait... that's not right!  See what I mean?  This kinda thing
requires a TOTALLY different structure, which I don't want to go into unless
someone asks. {{:)  Here's a hint, though:  re-cast it to "I caused to
occure that the prisoner kills his friend."

Let's see who the good students out there are, who rise to this challenge. {{:)

Third, you gave us a great example of an "if" (conditional) clause.  You
know:  "If" this sentence, then this one.  That's the <jIjatlhHa'chugh> part
of the sentence:  "if you mis-speak".  As a rule-of thumb, if you see a
type-9 verb suffix on a verb, it is NOT the main verb in the sentence.  If
it has  -wI' or -ghach on it, it has been "mutated" into a noun. If it has
any other teyp-9 suffix, then it is a subordinate clause.  Wait... what IS a
subordinate clause?  Well, it's a part of a setnece that has it's own
subject and verb, but can't stand by iteslf.  "If I mis-speak."  That's not
a complete thought.  "Correct my grammar"  That IS a complete thought... but
it is enhanced by the "if" clause.  In Klingon, anytime you see a type-9
suffix (-DI', -chugh, -taHvIS, -pa', -meH, -mo', etc.), you need to look for
another verb (althoug sometimes people drop the other verb, if they are
answering a questions... i.e.:  "Why did you do this?"  answer:  "Because I
am a Klingon"... the "because I am a Klingon" is not a complete thought...
but that's okay, because it is the answer to the question...).


Finally, you correctly used the imperative prefix yI-!  The imperative
prefixes are used to give a command.  In English, the "you" is implied:
Come here!=(You) Come here!  This makes translating imperatives  bit tricky,
until you remember to look for the "hidden" "you".... but you did a nice job!


majQa'!


I'm done rambling, now.  I hope someone got some benefit from all that...


--tQ, who feells oblidged to ramble when she sees a good example. :)



---
HoD trI'Qal, tlhIngan wo' Duj lIy So' ra'wI'
Captain T'rkal, Commander IKV Hidden Comet
Klingon speaker and net junkie!
HaghtaHbogh tlhIngan yIvoqQo'!  toH... qatlh HaghtaH Qanqor HoD???
monlI'bogh tlhInganbe' yIvoqQo'!  SoHvaD monlI' trI'Qal...

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