tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Aug 25 10:30:02 1996
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Re: KLBC: help with introduction
- From: [email protected] (HoD trI'Qal)
- Subject: Re: KLBC: help with introduction
- Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:30:43 -0400
At 06:23 PM 8/22/96 -0700, Jeff Velten wrote:
>Given the recent changing of the guard, I am reposting this question,
>originally posted on 8/7:
Ah, I remember seeing it then... I thought ~mark responded to this, though?
>I would like some help translating the following into tlInghan Hol:
>
>"I am Lietenant Kreth, of the Federation Starship Aurora."
>
>I play a sim character who has left the Empire due to what he feels is
>the corruption evident in the High Council, and the assassination of
>most of his family by a rival house. Recently, his ship has had several
>dealings with Klingon ships, as we patrol near the border. This is what
>I have come up with so far:
Heh. I play a character on a MUSE where pretty much the same thing
happened.. except she is too loyal to leave the Empire... {{:) (and 'cause
I like being the best Klingong speaker there, and occassinally reminding
them how badly they need me. {{:) )
>Sogh Qetlh jIH, DIvI''ejDo' *Aurora*-vo'
>
>According to TKD, DIvI'may'Duj is "Federation battle cruiser" so I
>assumed I would want to use DIvI''ejDo' for Federation starship.
Unfortunately, assuming makes an a** out of you and me both. :)
Just because a word LOOKS like it is made up of two parts in TKD (the
Klingon Dictionary), it doesn't mean it IS. To illustrate this point, I
have only to drag out ?nI'? (I use "?"'s around it to show you that it is
probably not a valid word) from <be'nI'> and <loDnI'>, and the on-going
debates on this very list about them and the person who came up with what
?nI'? appears to mean (to him), and how he came up with a list of "extended
family members" based on this <mu'qoq>. (NOTE: I really don't want to get
into ANOTHER debate about Glen here, I am just providing this as an example
of why we should NOT do this, okay? I will personally *FLAME* *anyone* who
brings THAT up HERE, whether I agree with them on what they said or not.
Got it? Good. {{:) )
The point here is: you really can't just say "oh, I have a word here...
um... <maSwov>, for "moonlight". I also have a word <maS>, for "moon".
That means, I can replace <maS> with <Hov> and get ?Hovwov? for "starlight",
right? Wrong. {{:)
What you are talking about here is really a compound noun: the combination
of two words to make a new word. As a GENERAL RULE, if you can find BOTH
parts of the original word which you are using for an exaple in the KD, you
can get away with swapping parts around, because then you can be pretty sure
it is a compound noutn... or at the very least, the new word you are making
is. That's why ?Hovwov? will not work... ?wov? is not a seperate word; we
don't know WHAT it is, other than part of the the word <maSwov>, and
although we are free to debate freely what it *might* be, we cannot assign a
meaning to it, and start using it as a seperate word.
Imagine your confusion if you were new, and had to look up ?Hovwov?, and
found <Hov> but couldn't find ?wov? nor ?Hovwov?! How are YOU, a new
student, supposed to knwo that it is derived from <maSwov> and <maS>, which
you have never seen before...
The good news is, despite my cautions about asuming, your construction IS
valid, as a compound nou, because BOTH <DI'vI'> and <'ejDo'> exist in the
KD. What you have made is a valid compound-noun.
*** DEBATE ALERT ***
Some would argue that only Okrand can create compound nouns, since we were
not given any rules for their creation, really. You might want to avoid
these kinds of debates by putting a space between <DIvI'> and <'ejDo'>,
which makes it a valid noun-noun construction (see pages 30-31 or your KD).
Under KLBC, I will accept EITHER, to make it easier for new students, but
will try to give this warning each time I see it.
>I am
>somewhat confused on the usage of -vo' (from). I'm sure I've done a
>pretty good job of butchering this phrase, and would appreciate any
>help.
Help is what I'm here for. {{:)
Actually, you didn't do such a bad job. The first part ("I am Lt. Kreth")
is correct.. except that your rank should come AFTER your name:
Qetlh Sogh jIH
Don't feel bad; I still introduce myself as ?HoD trI'Qal? at times. {{:)
As for the -vo'... Well, you could do it that way, if you put the whole
"from the Federation Starship "Aurora" *before* "I am Sogh Qetlh" (See, I
did it again!!!):
DIvI' 'ejDo' *Aurora*vo' Qetlh Sogh jIH
That might be English-idomatic, though.
When I introducem myself as trI'Qal, I often say:
trI'Qal HoD jIH. batlh tlhIngan wo' Duj <<lIy So'>> vIra'.
"I am Captain T'rkal. I command with honour the Imperial Klingon
Sip "Hidden Comet".
The trick I am using here is to take that "partial sentence" that we so
often see in the shows ("from the starship <blah>"), and give it a VERB, and
make it a sentence complete unto itself. Unfortunately, <ra'> won't work
for you... I would use either <toy'> ("to serve"):
"Aurora"Daq vItoy'lI'.
...although that implies a "master". I might also just say "My Duty-station
is on the Aurora":
"Aurora"Daq taHwIj tu'lu'.
Actually, looking at both of these, I would probably go with the second, as
it is a lot "cleaner", and more "Klingon"... the choice is really yours, though.
>Would it be more appropriate to translate Aurora into Klingon
>phonemes, to help with the general flow of the sentence, or would it
>best be left as is, as it's a non-tlInghan word?
Well, under the KLBC header, I would prefer that you not. If you are going
to transliterate it, you should flag it... otherwise, whoever hears you is
going to go flipping through their KD, trying to find "'awrora'" (or however
you decide to transliterate it).
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with just dropping the English in
there, as you did the first time, either. :)
>Qapla'
>Qetlh
>| Dargh QaQ, juH Doj |
"Good tea, impresive home?"
This looks like you translated a terran expression rather literally. "This
sentence no verb". A lack of a verb is as incorrect in Klingon as it is in
English. I'm not sure if you really mean "Good tea is a sign of an
impressive home" or, "If you have good tea, then your home is impressive".
If the first, I would expand it out:
juH Doj 'oS Dargh QaQ.
"Good tea represents an impressive home."
If the second, then I would say:
QaQchugh DarghlIj, vaj Doj juHlIj.
"If your tea is good, then your home is impressive."
Gotta be careful of those no-verb sentences! {{:)
--tQ
---
HoD trI'Qal, tlhIngan wo' Duj lIy So' ra'wI'
Captain T'rkal, Commander IKV Hidden Comet
Klingon speaker and net junkie!
HaghtaHbogh tlhIngan yIvoqQo'! toH... qatlh HaghtaH Qanqor HoD???
monlI'bogh tlhInganbe' yIvoqQo'! SoHvaD monlI' trI'Qal...