tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Aug 23 09:47:08 1996
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Re: Names in the Gospel of Mark and other word-borrowings there
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>Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:13:42 -0700
>From: "Dr. Maciej St. Zieba" <[email protected]>
> List of names and other words indicated with *...* or "..."
> from the Gospel According to Mark
>as translated from the Greek into tlhIngan Hol by Nick Nicholas.
>*bartlholomay'oS* - Bartholomew, apostle (Mk. 3,18)
>*betlhanI'ya* - Bethany, town in Judaea (Mk. 11,1)
>*betlhSayDa* - Bethsaida, town in Galilee (Mk. 6,45)
>*be'eltlhebul* - Beelzebub, devil (Mk. 3,22)
>*Sabatlh* - sabbath (Mk. 1,21)
>*'eloy 'eloy lama SabaHtlhaney*, "joH'a'wI', joH'a'wI', qatlh cholonta'?" - Eloi
> lama sabachthani?, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mk. 15,34
I wonder why there's such a love for "tlh" for sounds that are even
slightly non-Klingon. If I were transliterating a "z" sound (as in
Beelzebub), I'd use "S", not "tlh". At least it's a sibilant, and a
fricative! "z" differs from "s" (which becomes "S") only in voicing, and
"tlh" isn't voiced either, so what do you gain? You have an affricate
instead! True, some English words with z (like "Zion") are based on Hebrew
words with a tzadi, which is (in Modern pronunciation) a voiceless
affricate (and even in ancient pronunciation was never voiced), but for
true "z" sounds, I'd stick with "S."
Same with "th". Especially considering that many of them are from Hebrew,
which lost its "th" sound (if it ever had one) quite a long time ago in
most dialects. "tlh" is no better for "th" than "t" is, and "t" is how it
would be pronounced by most Hebrew-speakers today. Hmm... And you know,
I'm nearly positive that even in ancient pronunciation "sabachtani" would
have to have had a hard t and not a th. I think it follows a quiescent
shwa, and that makes the t hard. Some of the words are from Greek, which
did and does have a true "th" sound; maybe "tlh" is good for that... but
maybe "t" is still better, or maybe even "S" (listen to how Japanese
transliterates some English words with "th").
I've probably bounced this off Nick before... and it bounces again... :)
~mark
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