tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 12 12:22:01 1996
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other language pages at KLI Website
I post this text to the tlhIngan-Hol mailing list, although originally
intended only to Lawrence, as I haven't seen any discussion concerning
the foreign-language-pages of the KLI on the list, and I think this
is one of the most vital issues to the Institute now - our image
to outside.
Dear Lawrence.
I have almost finished my Polish translation of your introductory text to KLI,
but in order to complete it I must have your answer to some questions?
1.
>Now in its fifth year of operation,
In both Norwegian and German you have 4 and not 5. Which year did the KLI
come into existence?
If you want to change both (Norw. & Ger.) into 5 - just change in line 1:
Norw: "fire" into "fem"
Germ: "vier" into "fuenf" or f&uuhmlaut&nf (or whatever the code is
- how do you mark the end of the code, if anyhow?)
2.
>of Klingon
>linguistics and culture,
Wouldn't it be better to have "Klingon language and culture" in this context?
Otherwise it suggests something that is not true, that among Klingons there
existed some linguistics, and you (we) are studying there language research
(meta-language).
3.
>the Klingon language as a useful metaphor in the classroom
What kind of metaphor do you mean? I could have translated literally, but
it doesn't seem to make sense to me.
4.
>presently reaching thirty countries, and all seven
>continents.
How many pinguins from Antarctica are members of KLI? I haven't seen them
on the members' list.
I would also like to to inform you, that in Europe we are taught of 6
continents only, not 7, in our world (I don't know how many of them are
there in Qo'noS). Therefore I have translated as: 30 countries in all 5
continents. (meaning: the inhabited ones). If you disagree, look at the
Olympic flag with its 5 circles for 5 continents.
5.
>is one of the rare times when a trained linguist has been called upon to
>create a language for aliens.
What is so unique according to you: whether it's the fact that "a trained
linguist" or that he "has been called upon". I would like to render
your intention correctly and each possibility implies a different syntax.
6.
>mythos that has permeated popular culture and spread around the globe.
I have added: "North-American" popular culture, as I doubt it means anything
else, and I think it should be done so in the other language versions.
7.
>These factors begin to explain the popularity of the warriors' tongue.
I don't think the first mentioned factor (see No. 5) really explains ANYTHING
of the popularity of Klingon. Maybe for an American mind? not for mine.
Whether he was a trained linguist or no, whether the language was prepared
because ordered by Paramount or not - the language is interesting as it is.
See Zamenhof's Esperanto's popularity, much greater than that of Klingon,
without any of the factors mentioned. D-ro Zamenhof was a physician, not
a linguist, and he immediately renounced his Copyright.
Maybe for an American (=USA) mind, with its cult of the Company's Copyright
(how many times this issue has been discussed on thlIngan-Hol list!?)
it's important, but I don't believe it has much meaning in Europe (I can't
speak for Asia, Africa or Latin America) where the culture is considered
as "bonum commune" and cannot really be copyrighted. How can you copyright
a language? In America, where people and companies even "copyright" sections
of human DNA (am I not authorised to use my DNA, when it's copyrighted?)
it creates a kind of a popular paranoia about property, but I don't
believe elsewhere.
Neither the second factor (ST mythos) is as much of importance out of the USA.
Have you noticed how often the phrase "I am intersted in Klingon language
as a language, not in Star Trek" appears on the mailing list?
Keep it as a comment only. I shall translate your intentions faithfully.
8.
>Each issue includes artwork, feature articles, and regular columns
>discussing Klingon linguistics, language, and culture.
Do you consider "artworks" as more important than "feature articles"?
Or is this information added only to gain some interest in the journal
from the ST fans who wouldn't otherwise bother buying something as
technical as "linguistics"?
9.
>utilizing blind peer review, registered with the Library of Congress, and
I am sorry, but I haven't found the term "blind peer review" in any of my
English dictionaries (Concise Oxford, Heritage International and Harrap's
Practical) so I don't know what it does mean and how to translate it.
10.
>whether you've never
>studied another language
This sentence is good for a good percentage of North-Americans or other native
English speaking persons but for the rest of the world it's ridiculous:
You should add "another language (except English)" - otherwise how could
the member-to-be participate in the work of the KLI - without "DIvI Hol"?
11.
>The English text to translate appears below. Any special characters should be
>rendered using the appropriate HTML code (e.g., either "à" or "à"
>for a lowercase "a" with an accent grave).
If the text in any language has any "special" lettres - why is it shown
without them at all (examples: Norwegian, German and French)? Or with
a horrible substitution, like Esperanto "jx", or "ux" (which certainly
aren't Zamenhofa skribomaniero). In Poland I have a copy of "Lingvo Internacia"
of 1903 where Zamenhof in his rules of the grammar states (I quote from
my memory): "If for typographical reasons you cannot use c�apelitaj literoj
use ch, gh, hh, jh, sh, w instead". Who has invented this awful system with
the "x"? Why not rather use c�, g�, h�, j�, s�, u~ - which digraphs are
much easier to be read and understood? And which are also much more esthetical.
12.
>If you unfamiliar with HTML code,
>please print out the text with all appropriate special characters and send a
>copy via surface mail so we can be sure we get it right before putting your
>translation up on the website. Thanks for your assistance!
Why not send the complete list of the HTML codes for diacritical letters
to anybody wishing to do the translation? Or indicate the source on the
Internet where a file with such codes can be found?
If the file doesn't exist - why not create it? It doesn't need to
be an enoumous file - let say some 100 x 2 (for upper- and lowercase) letters
described - and the file could be easily understood by a person who uses
the letters every day.
If I see "à" i don't understand it, but if I see:
à - à
and next line
{ - À (example invented!)
then it's easy to understand.
Of course it needn't be understood "in whole" by everybody. If a Portuguese
sees "&eogonek" he needn't know what to do with it (as we say "how
to eat it"), but for a Pole or a Lithuanian it's like warm noodles with butter.
On the contrary - a typical Pole need't know what a "âle" is.
I would like to have such file with pleasure. Not only for this translation
but it could be useful in future.
13.
Last not least.
Who is doing the translations? Is it not that the native speakers do it?
Why some of them are so linguistically poor? Shame for a "Language Institute".
I am speaking of the French (obviously the worst one!), German and Esperanto.
If I, not native speaker of German, was able to see 30 mistakes in the text
and more than 50 in the French one - what could some French or German newcomer
say watching that on the website: "them not linguists, them impersonators".
Esperanto is a special case - as it's difficult to state what is the
language norm there - despite "PIV-o kaj PAG-o" - but there are also
some obvious mistakes. I'll post the three texts corrected by me directly to
Lawrence.
Hoping this will create some movement among the members