tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Aug 03 13:49:48 1996

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Re: how to say "any"


T::>My original and apparently unanswered question is: How do you say "Do you
 ::>speak any Federation language", in the sense of "any language spoken in
 ::>the Federation".

 Have you perhaps tried to ask the question _that_ way:

 DIvI'Daq jatlhlu' Hol Dajatlh'a' SoH

 DIvI'          Federation
 -Daq           locative
        = in the Federation

 jatlh          speak
 -lu'           indefinite-subject
        = which is spoken

 Hol            language
        = a language

 Da-            you(sub)-it(ob)
 jatlh          speak
 -'a'           question
 SoH            you (pronoun)
        = Do you speak

 Or at least, that's how _I_ would think to translate it.

 Remember to not try to translate mechanically - i.e., don't
 translate the words, express the concept.  Also, remember to
 apply the grammar:

 {tlhIngan Hol} uses OVS (object-verb-subject) order (where a
 locative can apparently replace an object; look back at my
 first sentence in the list); try to break up your sentences
 into those three components. If necessary, do the same with
 each component, as I did above:

 First, the concept was <you> <speak> <Fed-lang>.  OK, that
 means I have to write <Fed-lang> <speak> <you>. <speak> and
 <you> are easy: {jatlh SoH} directly from TKD. But that's not
 completely correct - verbs take prefixes to express the
 subject-object relationship, and suffixes to express other
 things, like interrogation, for example.

 In this case, I'm trying to deal with <you speak it>, which TKD
 shows as {Dajatlh}.  Making it an interrogative (you're asking
 about speaking) gives us <Fed-lang> {Dajatlh'a' SoH}.  OK,
 fine.

 Now, how about that <Fed-lang>?  Well, that's "A language that
 is spoken in the Federation".  Breakout: <<language> <speak>
 <in-Fed>>; write <<in-Fed> <speak> <language>>. <in-Fed> is
 {DIvI'Daq}, no problem; <language> is {Hol}, also no problem.
 That passive <spoken> may be a problem, though; what if we
 rephrase the English clause to the active "A language that they
 speak in the Federation"?  Much better. Now, the subject is
 <language>, the locative/object is <in-Fed>, and the verb is
 <they speak> - with <they> being unspecified, or _indefinite_.
 AHA!

 So now we have {DIvI'Daq <they-speak> Hol}, and <they-speak> is
 {jatlhlu'}.  Therefore, "a language which is spoken in the
 Federation" becomes {DIvI'Daq jatlhlu' Hol}, and this phrase in
 its entirety becomes the object of our original sentence.  So,
 substitute it for <Fed-lang> above, and get the original
 {tlhIngan Hol} sentence I proposed:

 DIvI'Daq jatlhlu' Hol Dajatlh'a' SoH

 Now, I'm morally certain that I've made not less than one
 serious mistake here; I eagerly await correction by one of the
 more experienced and knowledgeable members of the list.

T::>Also, why is there no "n" on {vulqangan}?  Should it not be {vulqaNngan}?
 ::>Does an ending "n" disappear when you add {-ngan}?  That would explain
 ::>{tlhIn}, {tlhIngan}.

 Ask Marc Okrand - it's in TKD that way.  However, even my
 limited exposure to linguistics has shown me that this kind of
 construction (i.e., elision of letters representing sounds that
 do not remain distinct) is not unusual.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      [email protected]
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