tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon May 01 10:36:15 1995
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Re: latlh
- From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: latlh
- Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 13:36:07 -0400
- In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9504282053.A28506-0100000@netcom8> ([email protected])
>Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:50:13 -0400
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: "R.B Franklin" <[email protected]>
>Fri, 28 Apr 1995 ghItlh peHruS:
>> Since <latlh> is a noun, perhaps it acts as do <Hoch> and <pagh>. See TKD
>> p54 Sec. 5.2
>>
>> >Numbers are used as nouns.
>That means they can function as the subject or object of a sentence.
>> >Numbers used as modifiers precede the noun they modify.
>This makes numbers unique. Neither nouns nor verbs do this.
>{Hoch} is a noun. {pagh} is a number. Their use is somewhat different.
>In PK, there is the phrase:
>{targhlIj yab tIn law' no'lI' Hoch yabDu' tIn puS.}
>("My targ has a bigger brain than all of your ancestors put together.")
>Here {no'lI' Hoch} means "all of your ancesters". In this noun-noun
>construction, {Hoch} follows the noun. But if I wanted to say "no or zero
>ancestors", it would be {pagh no'} because numbers precede the noun they
>modify.
>Since {latlh} is a noun and not a number, if I wanted to say "another
>one of your ancestors", it would be {no'lI' latlh}.
In all fairness, it must be said that the details of this "Hoch" business
are *not* 100% resolved. Glen Proechel maintains firmly that "Hoch", like
"pagh" should be considered a number and come *before* the noun it
modifies, and even Krankor is sitting on the fence. I have some to favor
treating it as a noun and outting it afterwards, not because I think that
is necessarily the only possible choice, but because I lack any better
evidence. I would feel that Klingon had become something alien
(um... well, you know) if it turned out I was wrong.
The one canon use of "Hoch" for "all of", quoted above, is unfortunately no
help. Following-Hochers would translate "no'lI' Hoch yabDu'" as "the
brains of all your ancestors", with Hoch modifying no'lI'.
Preceding-Hochers would say it means "All of the brains of your ancestors",
with Hoch modifying yabDu'. Even Okrand's intonation doesn't help us. I
think there's still room for disagreement on this.
>> peHruS
>yoDtargh
~mark